Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific http://www.building43.com/realtim...
Susan Beebe,
Michael Pinto,
Naor Mark,
Ken Sheppardson,
Mike Doeff,
Karoli,
dougcoleman,
Ryan,
Rob La Gesse,
Cliff Gerrish,
Ankush Narula,
Robert J Taylor,
and
Christopher Harris
liked this
I hear Phil Windley and Craig Burton are going to be on today's Gillmor Gang.
- Cliff Gerrish
Sounds like a great show!
- Rob La Gesse
Hi Steve
- Keith Teare
i've been missing the live action but the transcript from the last show was a fun read
- Brian Hendrickson
"[Google] Wave is saying, okay, our structure model is (unintelligible) " lol @kevinmarks http://bh.ly/0w
- Brian Hendrickson
@Scobleizer - got a Wave invite for me?
- Keith Teare
i want a wave invite...she whined.
- Karoli
Does whinining work?
- Cliff Gerrish
guess we're going to find out. LOL
- Karoli
So the discussion is SideWiki, not Wave -- Google still the topic.
- Cliff Gerrish
SideWiki is a blogging tool.
- Kevin Marks
wonder when SideWiki will come to my chrome. want it.
- Christopher Harris
I was just about to say that. SideWiki. . .
- Ron Hudson
Although, it's not really a wiki.
- Cliff Gerrish
dont believe the hype ;)
- sull
Seems like SideWiki, Echo and Disqus all do something similar.
- Cliff Gerrish
The web will become like Wings of Desire - We will all be able to listen to everyone's mind.
- Arnie Klaus
Just wrote a Sidewiki entry on "Category Archives: Real-time" http://bit.ly/12HDF
- Ron Hudson
We are thinking about you!
- Arnie Klaus
Amorphous
- Arnie Klaus
you guys should call up Leo Laporte and bring him into this conversation
- Brian Hendrickson
I don't even understand the concept of chat gathered around the Gillmor Gang any more. Do they mean the comments on this post?
- Matt Terenzio
Tina says KEVIN NEEDS TO SLOW DOWN!
- Cliff Gerrish
invisible backchannels
- Kevin Marks
Okay.
- Matt Terenzio
sorry wasn't making fun of you kevin!
- Brian Hendrickson
The difference between Sidewiki and Echo and Disqus is that Disqus and Echo give control over what get displayed to blog owner.
- Robert Scoble
I wrote a side wiki for the /realtime page. There is no way to edit it?
- Ron Hudson
But Sidewiki isn't something you add to your blog, it's just a portal that a small subset of users use to look at it
- Brian Hendrickson
I'd like to see SideWiki allow WebHooks, so when you submit a post it can also update another service ... Kind of like Posterous
- Ideas At Random
Control is an illusion.
- Cliff Gerrish
Echo and Disqus can bring the sidewiki feed back into it
- Kevin Marks
I's not controlling conversation I object to just reaching across a network and changing the way my content is displayed. I have no objections to a client side mashup or even a peer to peer
- Matt Terenzio
You do have control over what you write. You don't have control over what OTHER PEOPLE write.
- Ken Sheppardson
SideWiki is MOST dangerous because it isn't RSS-enabled, and there's no way to properly monitor it.
- Ike Pigott
SideWiki has a feed for every page and for every user, wrong Ike
- Kevin Marks
Y'all realize Diigo has been doing this same thing for a couple years now, right? Folks just haven't objected because they don't know about it. There will *always* be side converasations you don't know about that you can't control.
- Ken Sheppardson
framing is wrong. I format my content to browser size (just devil's advocate, I don't do that)
- Matt Terenzio
Kevin, I have yet to see the feed.
- Ike Pigott
It's not "framing", it's a browser add-in. Only those who've chosen to install the "app" see it.
- Ken Sheppardson
Scoble seems to advocate ignorance as a blissful state.
- Cliff Gerrish
Nice nodes, Robert
- Ross Mayfield
what do you want a feed for, Ike? Which page?
- Kevin Marks
Gillmor suggests by his actions just now that there needs to be a judge(ment). Where is the referee.
- Arnie Klaus
You could build a similar service that displays the comments from FriendFeed related to a specific page in the sidebar. IT's the same API http://ffcheck.com uses. Would you object to that, Robert?
- Ken Sheppardson
I'd be interesting if SideWiki was a wiki
- Ross Mayfield
why would that make you interesting?
- Brian Hendrickson
as long as they don't change the display of my content, I think it's fine.
- Matt Terenzio
SideWiki is really more of a palimpsest.
- Cliff Gerrish
What is the difference between sidewiki and just twittering with a #scobleizer tag?
- Ron Hudson
I am choosing to go to site A and I am choosing to install sidewiki. Why should site A control what I see there?
- Ryan
You still have control over that frame, Robert. You don't (i.e. shouldn't) have control over my sidebar.
- Ken Sheppardson
Yeah, Ken you are right
- Matt Terenzio
Robert - remember when I closed my FriendFeed account and you argued that I deleted YOUR comments stream?
- Rob La Gesse
Nobody's modifying what you're trying to display. There's a supplemental app that's displaying additional information about your page, Robert. And you have nothing to say about it, nor should you.
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert's totally right. Rock on
- Stephen Pickering
Ken, bullshit
- Stephen Pickering
You'll have to make a logical argument, Stephen. Epithets don't work.
- Ken Sheppardson
It's his page
- Stephen Pickering
It's my browser and desktop.
- Ken Sheppardson
That was MY post that the comments were attached to. I deleted that linkage - which affected you, and you were pissed :)
- Rob La Gesse
It's defacing his page
- Stephen Pickering
Kevin, I just tried plugging URLs into that API, and it doesn't pull.
- Ike Pigott
He delivered his page to my browser the way he wanted, once on my browser I can do anything to it
- Ryan
you need to escape the :// stuff
- Kevin Marks
Google Toolbar = evil :)
- Rob La Gesse
Aren't all audiences shared, and the audience owns itself?
- Ross Mayfield
You already do anything you want with pages in your browser.
- Cliff Gerrish
But ken if a plugin said, here Google take this page I want and add all the extra metadata to it and return it to me. That is wrong. It's different than a local client gathering content and displaying the way the enduser wants. technicality, but that is law. and I'm no lawyer
- Matt Terenzio
sidewiki isn't part of anybody's blog. it is an abstraction layer that becomes visible when a sidewiki user visits the blog
- Keith Teare
Do I have the "right" to install ad-blocking plugins? Do I have the "right' to install Greasemonkey or Stylish to change fonts and background colors?
- Ken Sheppardson
I did escape it: http://www.google.com/sidewik...
- Ike Pigott
Robert is trying to say sidewiki is like yelp gluing reviews to restaurant doors.
- Ron Hudson
Sidewiki is defacement
- Stephen Pickering
Who needs Sidewiki?
- Jonathan Brown
Yeah, why do all these geeks even have Google toolbar, anyway?
- Matt Terenzio
no, you need the full URL with trailing slashes and everything
- Kevin Marks
Spamwiki?
- Arnie Klaus
No one
- Stephen Pickering
actually, Robert's password IS his phone number :)
- Robert J Taylor
But *I* as the reader, am the one making the choice to "deface" the page. It's not as if every visitor is being forced to read those comments. It's MY CHOICE to see them.
- Ken Sheppardson
I did that too, Kevin. It didn't resolve, didn't pull in the very comment I left.
- Ike Pigott
100% correct Ken
- Ryan
SideWike is Google stepping in the same pile of dogshit that others have stepped in before.
- Rob La Gesse
Imagine if Yelp went around gluing reviews to restaurant windows! Absurd!
- Ron Hudson
How about Instapaper, which bookmarks your page and reformats it for mobile browsing. Is that "allowed"?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken that would be fine if you were the only one who could read your defacement or see it
- Stephen Pickering
I feel VERY sorry for the first company to get hammered in SideWiki during crisis communications.
- Ike Pigott
Your defacing it and the public can see it
- Stephen Pickering
Robert we are with you.
- Ron Hudson
btw, I'm using Sidewiki on this FriendFeed page
- Ross Mayfield
No you are not Stephen, if someone doesn't have sidewiki installed they can't see it
- Ryan
Ike, they will be hammered somewhere else anyway
- Kevin Marks
No, it's not the "public", it's all those users who've made the choice to view a conversation in a sidebar related to your page.
- Ken Sheppardson
Not defacing the site - but MOVING the conversation - which affects branding, value, etc
- Rob La Gesse
so its not defacement for all
- Ryan
But if they do have sidewiki they do
- Stephen Pickering
So you don't ever talk about blog posts or web pages on FriendFeed then, right, Stephen?
- Ken Sheppardson
then they choose to see that content, it wasn't forced on them
- Ryan
OK, at the count of three, everyone uninstall Google Toolbar. Then they will just build it into Firefox. And BECOME MS
- Rob La Gesse
Kevin, you're right -- but THOSE posts and comments will be more easily sortable, findable, and addressable. SideWiki is way too chaotic. And since all the SideWiki comments live on GOOGLE domain, they will show up in search eventually!
- Ike Pigott
Ken, hell yes, I do, but that's on FriendFeed and not on somebody's site
- Stephen Pickering
If I told you that I was using the FriendFeed API to retrieve and display all conversations related to the page I'm visiting in my sidebar, would you object to that, Stephen? See http://ffcheck.com
- Ken Sheppardson
yes Ken, but just because you ask me, I can't legally send a copy of something to you. Not saying they do this here, but I bet they want to soon if they mix it with search data and deliver ads, for example
- Matt Terenzio
They don't all live on Google's domain - that was my point about http://oneforty.com where SideWiki shows the TechCrunch RWW et al posts
- Kevin Marks
people who publish web pages need to host a more friendfeed-like discussion experience if they want to counter the sidewiki effect
- Brian Hendrickson
Steve - that IS an economically feasible plan
- Rob La Gesse
I just made a comment on this chat using side wiki http://bit.ly/V8TWq but I don't see anyone else's
- Ron Hudson
Ron - what I said
- Brian Hendrickson
Quoting @GinaTrapani: "Prediction: Google Sidewiki will go the way of Google Knol (ie, you'll never hear about it again)"
- Mike Doeff
SideWiki is poised to become Yahoo message boards or YouTube comments
- Robert J Taylor
SideWiki is so Cuil.
- Ike Pigott
Good. There will be a hell of a push back if it does take off
- Stephen Pickering
This whole industry that attempts to monetize content by framing it in a particular context, i.e. wrapped by ads, is sorta doomed, IMHO. In the long run.
- Ken Sheppardson
Brian I don't see your posts. just mine
- Ron Hudson
Yeah, so what's next, Ken, Google will put its own ads on my site?
- Stephen Pickering
No. I'm saying ads are dead.
- Ken Sheppardson
I posted a direct link to a Sidewiki comment I added here.
- Ike Pigott
please move on.
- sull
Ike - when I clicked the link then I saw your link, but not mine or anyone else's
- Ron Hudson
everything is a "backchannel"
- sull
Ron, I refreshed the page, and no one else's SideWiki entries are displayed.
- Ike Pigott
Don't backchannel me bro!
- Robert Scoble
Which URL did you use, Ike? I think there are number of different URLs/views.
- Ken Sheppardson
Scoble uses the backchannel to request we not backchannel him.
- Cliff Gerrish
Life is a backchannel.
- Ken Sheppardson
I have no idea what that means.
- Ken Sheppardson
"Don't backchannel me bro! - Robert Scoble" - heh
- Rob La Gesse
pretty soon we won't know what is true and who said it! we are doomed!
- Matt Terenzio
What about DotSpots? Introduced at least year's TC 50 and finally launched a few weeks ago... http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- Mike Doeff
I have to take several ibuprofen every day for my backchannel problem.
- Jerry Schuman
Ken, find me the feed for this link: http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_b...
- Ike Pigott
SideWiki turns blogs into Fox News
- Rob La Gesse
So, what does SideWiki with Wikipedia mean?
- Robert J Taylor
Sidewiki is the new standard for comments on all websites.
Just install a Wordpress plugin for bringing Sidewiki entries into your blog comments.
- Charbax
I see yours now Ike, I commented on a different url. SideWiki #fail
- Ron Hudson
No Rob... SideWiki turns blogs into subway cars, in a town that sells permanent infrared spraypaint.
- Ike Pigott
All systems need calibration or the noise takes over.
- Arnie Klaus
we know that, but is it legal?
- Matt Terenzio
Ike - nice
- Rob La Gesse
"You're so 10 mins ago" <- this is Real Time, after all :)
- Robert J Taylor
knew VRM would make it in here!
- Matt Terenzio
Sidewiki will never take off and even if it does, there will be so much push back just like the digg framer that they will discontinue it
- Stephen Pickering
Jay, yeah DotSpots raises the same issues but nobody is talking about them because they're relatively unknown (unlike Google)
- Mike Doeff
I hope Google puts SideWiki in Firefox. That will be the start of the anti-trust investigation
- Rob La Gesse
Sidewiki or something like it will absolutely take off, you just won't know about it.
- Ken Sheppardson
I see the other comments now
- Ron Hudson
Can't we sell in the sidewiki?
- Arnie Klaus
My browser is not your place of business, Robert.
- Ken Sheppardson
plugin functionality is quickly being surpassed by things like Comet/AJAX, so what's next.. who can write AJAX?
- Jerry Schuman
but my site is my place of business (so to speak)
- Robert J Taylor
Your browser isn't but when you can use it to deface his website, it is his place of business
- Stephen Pickering
Jeez... we're going in circles yet again..
- Ken Sheppardson
Friendfeed can easily bring sidewiki entries inside friendfeeds feeds
- Charbax
I wish that death spiral would accelerate.
- Jerry Schuman
I'm drawing a moustache on Robert Scoble right now.
- Cliff Gerrish
This is about as useful as wave. I'm out.
- Ron Hudson
Charbax: And FriendFeed in a sidebar can essentialy replace Sidewiki
- Ken Sheppardson
There will be so much push back on this you won't believe it. This will be taken to court and Google ruled against
- Stephen Pickering
What nonsense that guy just said
- Stephen Pickering
I just pushed SideWiki into my Friendfeed, and my Friendfeed spools into my SideWiki profile, and it hasn't caused me any probl
- Ike Pigott
Transient logic... next big push.. data push first.. logic push next.
- Jerry Schuman
it is a document that is being passed across the web, despite how complicated the creation and distribution is. ultimately it is html and javascript
- Matt Terenzio
Sidewiki needs to bring in Google Reader comments related to the "post"/page it's displaying. That'd be slick.
- Ken Sheppardson
the document comes from a location, or multiple locations
- Matt Terenzio
Sidewiki already brings in relevant related blog posts from blogsearch/google news
- Charbax
Isn't the location metaphor broken, just like the silo metaphor.
- Cliff Gerrish
we're resurrecting "compound document" architectures ala OpenDoc
- Jerry Schuman
Someone has to host all the web's comments, I'd rather it be Google than Facebook.
- Charbax
Charbax - I would prefer it is distributed
- Rob La Gesse
maybe microsoft is the new microsoft and google is slightly changed google
- Matt Terenzio
Okay... I'm out. (please allow me to continue with my fantasy that anyone noticed I was in)
- Ike Pigott
Bye Ike.
- Cliff Gerrish
I'd prefer that comments be distributed, and when you view an "entry" or some chunk of content, all the associated, linked comments on and items related to that item can be pulled from wherever they live and displayed for me, subject to filtering I define.
- Ken Sheppardson
You can just load the comments from Google's Sidewiki server by simply copying from the RSS feeds.
- Charbax
we don't want nails, just weak glue
- Matt Terenzio
Webmasters should not be able to filter comments. That's the whole point. Power to the people, not the current establishment of the web
- Charbax
I love the fact that if you run Kevin's twitter id through a twitter sentiment tool he's categorized as "post-graduate" ;-)
- Jerry Schuman
The NASCAR problem is the zillions of identity logins available on sites supporting openid.
- Cliff Gerrish
Hey Ken, are you coming to IIW?
- Cliff Gerrish
I might... I should.... Nov 3-5 at the Comp History Museum?
- Ken Sheppardson
Damn you Steve!
- Rob La Gesse
Ownership of content is dead.
- Ken Sheppardson
Yes, Ken. I'll be at IIW.
- Cliff Gerrish
This event was Tricasted thanks to NewTek!
- Rob La Gesse
Could you check the audio sync before posting this on Youtube? all the other Gillmor Gang Youtube videos seem to be out of sync
- Charbax
Good show.
- Mike Doeff
This show was TriCasted :) ... like that
- Robert J Taylor
i'll have to pick it up on the rerun. deadlines and doctor's appointments intervened.
- Karoli
Charbax google is working on fixing
- Steve Gillmor
Google/YouTube is looking in to the sound sync problem. It's happend on a number of other videos too.
- Cliff Gerrish
Is there an rss feed to download the videos from YouTube yet?
- Christian Burns
Christian: You can be notified of a new upload via this RSS feed: http://gdata.youtube.com/feeds...
- Jack
Really interesting show.
- Amyloo
Still listening to the show, but one idea that doesn't seem to have been brought up on the sidewiki debate is the fact that I can create a custom CSS template for a page (Scobleizer.com for example) and even further change and/or modify a website's appearance and look. What happens when Google creates a proverbial "sideCSS" widget to allow everyone easy access to modify the look of others' sites? It only takes a bit of additional code to push that one step further to completely reconfigure a website altogether.
- Chris Aldrich
Doesn't RSS already strip all the formatting from a website in order to transport one level of value?
- Cliff Gerrish
Not every site has RSS. haven't you heard it's dead?
- Matt Terenzio