"Praying for Japan" presumably means prayi

No. - Akiva

I mean, 2 days in? Why attack a coping mechanism, no matter how silly you think it is, for not other reason than to illicit a smug chuckle from yourself? It doesn't help anyone, it doesn't bring comfort to anyone. Shit, it's not even a half-hearted attempt to convert those of faith to reject such notions. I don't have a strong faith, but I'm sure as hell not going to go around and knock people who are genuinely expressing love for others. Certainly not now. Unlikely in the future. It's just a smug attack by someone who have the luxury to do so. But thanks anyway for the question - Johnny

Anthony, across a wide scope of theologies, 'praying for' is an act of empathy. But you feign naivety to make some crude point, presumably. Is that just how you roll in a catastrophe? Sad. - Micah

Most Japanese are Shinto. Unlike most Western religions, Shinto doesn't teach a single all-powerful God responsible for all, so praying for good solutions to bad situations isn't hypocritical. - Kevin Fox

I'd like to echo the sentiments above. Had this debate round the dinner table last night about exactly what is the cause of all these natural disasters. At the end of the day we decided the cause doesn't really matter. Smart ass comments like that really do get on my nerves. - Roberto Bonini

I've already given this too much time, but if you replace "Japan" with "victims of 9/11", you (still) just come off as a fucking asshole - Johnny

if asking a really important question - and I think it is - makes me an asshole/douchebag, so be it. - Anthony Citrano

Why are you asking it? - Johnny

It seems the only reason you are asking it is to point out the hypocrisy in the situation… therefore the super important question that you couldn't wait to ask isn't as important as your need to demonstrate the hypocrisy of others. Why else would you include the hashtag? - Johnny

Funny: on my afternoon beach walk today I found myself ruminating about the current earthquake and natural disasters in general, and the thought kept rolling around in my mind: the universe in its entirety is riven and suffused with random and violent chaos. You never know when or where that violent chaos is going to erupt and devour you, no matter where you are located in the universe. There is no stable spot of rest. I totally get where Anthony is coming from. - Sean McBride

And I also found myself thinking about the inclination of Southern Bible thumpers to blame natural disasters on those who are afflicted by them, who are allegedly being punished for their sins. Then I found myself contemplating the fact that this same religious tradition believed that God was on its side in the US Civil War and was utterly crushed. Now there is irony for you. - Sean McBride

I find the peeved responses here to be amusing -- I'm not impressed by the tone of moral outrage in the least. And I am feeling great concern and pain for the victims of the Japanese earthquake, and thinking about how any of us could be overtaken by a similar natural disaster at any time due to the sheer unpredictable randomness of existence. - Sean McBride

Because I'm terribly fucking sick of hearing people tell me to "pray" about/for whomever and whatever terrible thing just happened. If I chose to worship a god, it wouldn't be one who would choose to inflict such pain, torture, and suffering upon innocents. - Anthony Citrano

So you are pissed with people. So the question isn't important, it's your need to abuse people. THAT makes you an asshole - Johnny

Johnny Worthington -- sometimes you come across as overly earnest and not too bright. (But of course I know that you are brilliant. :)) For some people, natural disasters trigger complex metaphysical and philosophical thoughts -- which takes away nothing from their empathy and sorrow for the victims. \ - Sean McBride

I'm not abusing anyone. In fact, it would seem to be you engaging in verbal abuse and name-calling. At least I have the mental maturity to debate an issue without acting like a ten year old. - Anthony Citrano

Sean, I put it down to randomness too... but I'm not gonna shit on those who don't. At a time like this, I can put my personal hang ups aside - Johnny

Johnny Worthington -- I take it back -- you really aren't that bright. And these remarks of yours are incredibly boring. - Sean McBride

Like flys to honey - Johnny

I think Johnny nailed the issue here in his first five words: "I mean, 2 days in?" There's a place for a theological and psychological argument about the efficacy or logic of prayer, but there are hundreds of thousands of people in real trouble and tens of thousands dead, so disparaging the way others show their compassion seems inappropriate at this time. It's too soon. - Kevin Fox

Sean and Johnny, I know both of you personally pretty well, and you're both quite bright, and both have different buttons which are pushing each other right now. It would improve my opinion of both of you right now if you'd realize you've said what you came to say and leave it be. - Kevin Fox

Johnny Worthington -- do you think that Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and other Christian evangelicals of their ilk were expressing genuine love for their fellow human beings when they claimed that New Yorkers were punished by God on 9/11 and got what they deserved for their sins? - Sean McBride

Maybe, maybe not. I wasn't paying attention... That's kinda the point - Johnny

And now I see Kevin's comment. I withdraw - Johnny

I'm afraid I'll have to side with Anthony and Sean on this one. The hypocrisy of praying to "insert your favorite deity" after natural disaster "x" happens is to me unfathomable. My first question is where was your favorite deity just prior to the natural disaster? - Jeff P. Henderson

Kevin -- some of us can walk and chew gum at the same time: grieve for the victims of the earthquake, which I've been doing all day, while at the same time contemplating the big questions which natural disasters of this magnitude inevitably trigger in the minds of thinking people. Why is there so much suffering in the world? Is there a purpose behind it? - Sean McBride

∆eff, just a minor note: Nobody said 'Pray to God' or 'Pray to Allah' or 'Pray to FSM'. Prayer has a broader context than asking the deity of your choice what you want. And this comes from an atheist. - Kevin Fox

The point really isn't the cause. The point that you're attacking people. OK, fine, you're atheist, agnostic, whatever. The point is that for people who have the conviction of a belief in god, its like morphine for the critically injured. Niether of you is going to turn off the morphine. So, don't got bashing others coping machinisims (that goes for both of you). - Roberto Bonini

Sean, I don't know that you realize it, but your language when talking with someone you disagree with is very frequently disparaging. 'walking and chewing gum at the same time' is a simpleton's task and implying that my argument is that such a feat isn't possible is just another subtle jab. Argumentation has become such a part of your nature that I don't think you actually see that you use tactics very similar to those you detest in the media. Framing situations with irrelevant but supportive imagery or couching in the most favorable terms rather than an honest conversation about issues is what causes these escalations. - Kevin Fox

Roberto -- I totally understand the need for many people to self-medicate through religion and prayer. We all have our coping mechanisms, and I don't think mine are any better than those of religionists, even religious fundamentalists. But disasters like this tend to set in motion vivid thoughts about issues we usually keep well suppressed from our consciousness. I think it's useful to discuss those issues -- it's one of several coping strategies. Rationalists often cope by applying rational thought processes on horrifying situations. A form of self-medication in a way, just like prayer. - Sean McBride

Kevin -- some people here seem to think it is inappropriate to vent philosophical and skeptical thoughts in the immediate aftermath of a major natural disaster. I disagree, and you disagree with me. Fine. We are both expressing our points of view. - Sean McBride

I guess I tend to take a more pragmatic approach to dealing with natural disasters. There is always a physical explanation for why they happen and for me that is enough comfort. I certainly feel very sorry for the victims and hope that they recover quickly. The sobering part is that something like this can happen to any of us at any time and there is not much you can do to avoid it. We live in a violent universe. As humans we have only created the illusion of safety and security in our environment. - Jeff P. Henderson

That is indeed sobering. It just so damn random. - Roberto Bonini

On my beach walk today I also kept envisioning what a huge tidal wave would look like approaching me from the distance much faster than I could run away. There is no coastline on the planet where this couldn't happen in a totally unexpected way. These kinds of thoughts tend to push me more towards Buddhism than Christianity: everything is fragile and mutable; everything disappears. - Sean McBride

Jeff P. Henderson -- my thoughts exactly. And I feel a strong emotional need to express them, even if some people find them offensive. To express them takes a bit of the sting out of them. - Sean McBride

Like you said, this is your coping mechanism as others turn to religion as their coping mechanism. People need to stop being so offended when someone else has a different opinion or belief system than theirs. - Jeff P. Henderson

I feel bad about my above remarks to Johnny Worthington -- I was expressing irritation in the same way others here have been doing, but there is no excuse for that. I apologize, Johnny -- you're a good guy. This event in Japan has triggered powerful emotions in most of us, some of which we probably don't really understand. I can't begin to imagine what the immediate victims are going through right now. People all around the world who are not directly involved are going to be having literal nightmares over this for quite some time. - Sean McBride

That was all I was trying to express. :-) - Kevin Fox

Sean, that's an apt coming around. I'm glad you wrote it here. - Micah

+1 Sean. - Jeff P. Henderson

+2 Sean. :) - Roberto Bonini

Pray? No...that is as ridiculous to me as the idiots who are shouting that the earthquakes & tsunami are somehow "karma" for Pearl Harbor blahblahblah. *rolls eyes* If it were karma, then explain why it affects the entire damn Pacific Rim, which includes most of the west coast of the N America & S America, Hawaii, Samoa, all of southeast Asia...*heavy sigh* No, praying to some invisible sky wizard won't do anything. However, sending actual assistance, like going here and seeing how we can actually help? http://www.good.is/post... ~ that might actually make a difference in the lives of how many thousands who are suffering in real time. - Prosey BUTTONS!

I think the reaction to Anthony's OP is primary that it's baiting more than a sincere inquiry. At the same time, I can understand there is a desire to have a true dialog, and Anthony isn't finding the opportunity in those moments when he hearing "pray for..." or "I pray..." or "let's pray...". But, don't beat a confession out of people. The context and approach to the discussion matters, even among people who already agree with the basic tenets of your world view. - Micah

prosepetals, then tell people what you're doing, or what they can do in the face of a crisis. It doesn't necessitate an attack on their initial or parallel response. - Micah

*nod* I understood the sentiment - which was why I didn't dig into the whole debate, actually. :) I saw how it ended, and appreciate that. My suggestion wasn't about prayer or lack thereof -- most of us, as reasonable people are genuinely concerned -- and that has been duly covered in this thread. I figured I'd open up a link that gives some realistic options and just track around the whole a/theistic part. Am I going to "couch" my words while doing so? No...but I also broached both extreme topics to point out how unnecessary they are. :) I don't "attack" theists for their faith. Not my place. I also understood the "prayer as positive thought", which is wonderful...but action is needed now more than thought. In that, I mean NO offense, but I won't sit and apologize either -- people in Japan are going to need water, non-perishable foods, and really really fast. - Prosey BUTTONS!

Yup, Like I said above, its like morphine for the critically injured. And you wouldn't turn off the morphine would you? - Roberto Bonini

MIcah, I agree. And were it not for all of you working it out as well as you have, I would have jumped in on Anthony's inquiry to suggest that there have been assumptions made. Its just that now is not the time. It's a triage moment of support for the people of Japan and those who have loved ones there. In triage, you don't do big surgeries now do you. You take care of the big gaping wounds and decide who you can help and who you can't. The long term and involved has to wait. - Melanie Reed

prosepetals, glad you elaborated. Most people who pray also think sending in aid workers with food, clothing, shelter and medicine, etc—or whatever is appropriate for the situation—is absolutely the right thing to do at the same time; and they get on a plane themselves, or donate money to effect it. Just like those who happen to pray to no one. - Micah

Micah -- :) I think everyone's heart is in the right place here. What I didn't see was a link to options (which I posted in several places yesterday) ~ Good Main link, scroll down to the bottom, has *many* link options...too many people just don't know what avenues there are in a natural disaster (I used to work for Red Cross years and years ago...and want to keep those avenues floating in case people are unaware of them). Outside of that, I also know that prayer gives the worried faithful comfort and peace, and I don't personally find any fault in that, even if I don't find my comfort and peace in the same activity. :) - Prosey BUTTONS!

My two takeaways from this: 1. We need to try to understand and respect the wide variety of coping mechanisms used by others in times of great collective crisis. Anthony could have been more diplomatic and sensitive in his rhetoric for sure (but I am not going to preach to him). 2. I just realized that one of the key subterranean emotions that monumental natural disasters trigger is anger and rage at being so vulnerable and helpless against much of what nature and the universe have to dish out for us. So, yes, many of us are feeling upset, irritable and angry in response to what we are seeing in Japan -- it reminds us too much of the mortality of the human race in general as well as of our personal mortality. If people are angry, as well as horrified, sorrowful, grieving, etc., it's understandable. By all means, vent. - Sean McBride

Sean, well said. - Micah

Some prologue: as some of you know, I had a family tragedy strike very close to home this week. I asked no one to pray. Several people did suggest the affected seek comfort in Jesus/God. I find it offensive. To me, it too obviously raises the question of where the fuck this awesome Jesus/God was five minutes before it happened. And most rational people know the answer: nowhere. I announced that tragedy with sentiments similar to what Jeff and Sean have expressed here: fate is indifferent; be grateful. - Anthony Citrano

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