Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific ht

Nice. I'm home this afternoon and get to see it live for the first time. - Amyloo

ditto. no sound either. - Christopher Harris

We're getting there - Brett Slatkin

The test pattern looks good so far. - Matt M (inactive)

We are starting shortly. - Robert Scoble

whoooo! shortly! - Christopher Harris

Please stand by... - Robert Scoble

It's on - Matt M (inactive)

Cool - Ken Sheppardson

Rackspace is wasting their money, they could reach 175000 geeks by advertising on TWiT - Mark

first time i'm seeing the new video :) - Christopher Harris

Mark: who said we won't do that too? - Robert Scoble

Alright... need to pull up Dave's Twitter stream in another window... - Ken Sheppardson

look at that chizzled jaw, lucky guy - Mark

dave winer? - Christopher Harris

Considering we're watching video sucked over Skype and rebroadcast over ustream, the quality is pretty good. - Matt M (inactive)

"Fast RSS." I liek that generic term. Harkens to fast zombies. - Amyloo

Fast feeds - like fast food? Will there be a Slow Feeds movement? - Kevin Marks

Polling sucks. - Bob Wyman

Bob: can you explain why you think that? - Robert Scoble

And how that fits into this conversation? - Robert Scoble

Knowing "what's new" is pretty important - as important as "something is new". - Matt M (inactive)

Scoble: It's inefficient. - Eric Florenzano

Aha I'm awake in time for the gillmor gang. - Hilary Talbot

polling wastes resources on both sides of the connection for the majority of the time when there are no new items - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Hey Hil. - Amyloo

hey Amy :) - Hilary Talbot

Scoble: Think of the browser. V1 of friendfeed was polling. You had to ask (by refreshing) whether there was new content. This version of friendfeed is push, where FriendFeed tells you when there's new stuff. - Eric Florenzano

bear: right, so is Pubsubhubbub doing it right or wrong? And, is there a better way? - Robert Scoble

the key part is that it's sending the content along with the item - this dramatically reduces client complexity - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

By "server", he means "hub", re: doing more work. The blogs do as much work as they do today (ie: ping the hub). - Matt M (inactive)

Hubbub is doing it right IMO - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Scoble: Just remember everything I said to you 5 or 6 years ago when explaining why PubSub was useful and why "one-day" people would realize that real-time would be good. Nothing has changed. - Bob Wyman

Bob: yup, I'm slow. :-) - Robert Scoble

Robert: You need to get more "real-time"! - Bob Wyman

Right - this is the HTTP/HTML version of what PubSub has been doing for XMPP - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Absolutely. No question. Yes. - Bob Wyman

Yeah. It could do twitter. - Matt M (inactive)

correction - I'm not the CTO - I don't think Johann would like me taking his job :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Is it possible Bill Gates had it right, Business at the speed of Thought? We want content and information as we think it. - Owen Greaves

Oh, sorry. - Robert Scoble

I get confused. :-) - Robert Scoble

Someone ask Recordon if they've figured out how all this can relate to activitystrea.ms, the streams protocol Facebook, MySpace, and others support - Jesse Stay

no worries :) I like the promotion - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

which is Atom based - Jesse Stay

You'd have a hard time doing twitter over rssCloud - you'd have to be pulling the last 30 twitter messages after each tweet. That's 30x the traffic. - Matt M (inactive)

If you were designing this sort of system from scratch today, I can't imagine that you'd take a polling approach. It's legacy left over from page-based web browsing. - Ken Sheppardson

This is a great fit for activitystrea.ms - Kevin Marks

Kevin, that's what I was thinking - both being Atom, they ought to fit together well. I'd love to see a use-case in action. - Jesse Stay

Yeah, activitystrea.ms works easily with Atom which can then be made real time using PSHB. - David Recordon

robert - easily - Seesmic ran in the cloud until we finally needed more memory for the Java side - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

polling is useful as a fallback and to pull history when subscribing for the first time. - Kevin Marks

Can we all just agree on "Hubbub" vs "PuSH" or saying "pubsubhubbub" every time... once and for all? :-) - Ken Sheppardson

I'd love to see Brett's opinion on why Twitter won't implement PSHB - Jesse Stay

It requires a big player just to have the operations staff to maintain a high volume site - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Jesse: I was just about to ask that. - Robert Scoble

Tornado uses epoll and it's been used by Twisted Python - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

but if it's distributed - it would scale out anyway - Ankush Narula

Kqueue too :) (Well, Twisted does support that, Tornado doesn't yet) - Eric Florenzano

Twitter won't implement it because they want to be the hub, and they want everybody to use their own, proprietary APIS - Ken Sheppardson

Ankush - correct - until you get "scobled" (i.e. when you have one user with a huge number of followers) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Mike: and wait until you get onto Oprah! :-) - Robert Scoble

Sounds like DNS - Rob La Gesse

Ken, I understand the Hub part, but I can't help wonder if they just don't understand how it could help their API. They could use their own hub if they wanted. - Jesse Stay

Are Hubbub and rssCloud the same thing? (...he asks, feigning innocence) - Ken Sheppardson

The PSHB protocol is "simple" and fairly trivial implementations are possible. But, *any* single hub that monitors millions of feeds is going to need care and feeding. There will be *very large* hubs and their will be tiny hubs and they can all work together happily. - Bob Wyman

I'd love to know if Brett or Brad have reached out to Twitter in any way - Jesse Stay

Ken: no. Similar efforts but come from different histories. RSSCloud comes from Dave Winer's side of the house. - Robert Scoble

robert - oh hell no - that's what Loic is good at - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

the distinction is that PubSubHubbub sends the fat pings with content in; rssCloud sends an update notification and still needs a poll - Kevin Marks

Mike: actually Loic has someone speaking at LeWeb that has a bigger global brand than Oprah. - Robert Scoble

robert - yea, I haven't found out who yet - i'm curioius about that - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

It's Dr. Laura isn't it Robert? - Jesse Stay

what happens if a hub dies? - Ankush Narula

Jesse: way bigger than that. - Robert Scoble

Yeah, Twitter wants other people to adopt their streaming API, if anything... they don't want to be yet another hub in some network - Ken Sheppardson

rssCloud causes "thundering herd" problem on source blogs. The result can be a complete swamping of smaller publishers. This was the core "mistake" in rssCloud when it was first done 7 years ago and it remains the core error in that protocol. - Bob Wyman

How about working with the OMB guys? Why PSHB vs. OMB protocol? - Jesse Stay

yea, Twitter got burned with XMPP early in their engineering life so have a bad taste for it - they got burned not because of XMPP but because of other non-tech reasons - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Jesse - IMO OMB should allow for atom payloads - then it could become part of PSHB by default - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

OMB could generate activitystrea.ms + PSHB too - Kevin Marks

Thundering herd would be a *huge* problem if Twitter were to get decentralized. Oprah has 1MM+ followers - that's 20 tweets * 1k * 1MM subscribers on each tweet. - Matt M (inactive)

Celine Dion probably has a bigger brand than Opera, and she speaks French (ADD kicking in here) - Jesse Stay

Bear, interesting - Jesse Stay

Bear: The issue wasn't XMPP the protocol, it was the software they used to implement it, the systems they built to feed it, the way they configured it, etc... XMPP isn't, a priori, any worse than the alternatives. - Bob Wyman

OMB made a big mistake when they created their own protocol instead of just extending ATOM, IMO - Eric Florenzano

Bob, yes - you said it much better than I did - I was trying to say just that - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

There was also the on again/off again relationship Twitter had with Gnip that confused the whole XMPP situation - Ken Sheppardson

Yeah, I don't really see what OMB gets you these days given activitystrea.ms, Hubbub, etc. Seems redundant. - Ken Sheppardson

We have an interesting interview with Gnip's founder on Building43 right now, by the way. - Robert Scoble

@Matt: Right. with rssCloud, publishing becomes massively expensive if you get popular. rssCloud will, on the other hand, work well for people who aren't very popular and don't have many people interested in what they publish. For those folk, rssCloud is a potential solution... :-) - Bob Wyman

Gnip link: http://www.building43.com/videos... - Rob La Gesse

oh cool - Gnip has some very cool tech behind the scenes - i'll have to queue that video - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Ken - now that identi.ca/status.net has plugins - nothing prevents someone from wiring up a PHSB hook to the internal message queue for identi.ca/status.net - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

bear: You know if anybody's pushing activitystrea.ms out of a Laconica instance yet? - Ken Sheppardson

I imagine that hooking up the twitter firehose to PSHB would be really easy and cheap, but it would likely violate the twitter firehose license. - Matt M (inactive)

kevin - yea, one of the most fun projects I did was to hook a sms/xmpp bot to a phone switch - it allowed you to control your vm/phone from xmpp and gave a lot of benefit - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

EVERYTHING cool violates the Twitter firehose rules :) - Rob La Gesse

ken - there is some private branch work being done on that - but they are working on getting 0.9 out the door first - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

@bear great - we should get you hooked up to the Ribbit APIs for telephony stuff and Seesmic - Kevin Marks

Rob: FriendFeed figured out a way around the stupid Twitter rules. - Robert Scoble

I think just knowing that Twitter offers a firehose violates it's terms of use. - Ken Sheppardson

@kevin i would love to review them and make a pitch to the team about them - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Robert - FF didn't try to share the firehose. - Rob La Gesse

$50M for FF engineering and architecture team? - Ankush Narula

@bear great, email me [email protected] - Kevin Marks

..and FF was able to position themselves as a Twitter client, in a sense, by pushing traffic to Twitter. They weren't just extracting value from the system. Plus, they probably asked nicely and sent cupcakes. - Ken Sheppardson

Rob: sure it did, but it only shares it for people who have logged into FriendFeed. - Robert Scoble

Rob: Twitter's rules are "don't create a shadow Twitter." As long as you don't try to do that they probably will let you play. - Robert Scoble

Rob: of course every geek in the world wants to create a shadow Twitter. :-) - Robert Scoble

Rob - once they produced the v2 api - then they started sharing the full stream. Until that point it was a partial stream - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Robert - my point is - at the same time Twitter couldn't support more use of the firehose, they demanded the firehose NOT be re-broadcast. They don;t allow one to become a "node" of the stream. Which seems silly. - Rob La Gesse

That's not entirely correct, Robert. Their other rule is "don't try to monetize something firehose based that we may at some point in the indefinite future think about monetizing ourselves" - Ken Sheppardson

On PubSubHubbub and rssCloud ... (http://brad.livejournal.com/2405147...) - David Recordon

Ken: we're saying the same thing. :-) - Robert Scoble

decentralization!!! - Ankush Narula

Rob: FriendFeed rebroadcasts the Twitter firehose, but only for the people who have signed onto FriendFeed. - Robert Scoble

Robert: Ah... right... "shadow Twitter". Gotcha :-) - Ken Sheppardson

Robert/Ken - I can understand why Twitter doesn't want downstream nodes passing on the stream - they lose access control - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Robert - they are not. They are broadcasting back a VERY small portion of that stream, at best. - Rob La Gesse

I think technically rebroadcasting is illegal according to the Twitter developer terms for the firehose - Jesse Stay

Mike me too! Rob: it is a small portion because only a few hundred thousand people have signed onto FriendFeed, but if you could get everyone on Twitter to sign up here you'd see the entire firehose. - Robert Scoble

See: http://code.google.com/p... - Bob Wyman

In so far as fire-walled end-user applications can't receive pings, PSHB protocol mainly helps publishers and server-side aggregators like Google reader. Since this "last mile problem" is out-of-scope for PSHB, we can't yet expect any client explosion the likes that Twitter has seen. Any thoughts from the panel on the last mile problem? What would have to be done so that Tweetie, Seesmic, etc, might benefit from PSHB? - Mason Lee

Robert - I disagree. I think if that happened the hose would be shut off. - Rob La Gesse

The protocol comparison document is at: http://code.google.com/p... - Bob Wyman

Well, I don't think it's just rebroadcasting... there's also an issue around derivative/aggregations based on the firehose, firehose-based analytics, etc - Ken Sheppardson

Why isn't Twitter ever a part of these conversations? I'd love to hear their viewpoint. You should get Ryan Sarver on one of these episodes. - Jesse Stay

real time chat across different media and internet access levels - you pick what size/speed your want your conversation to happen at - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

I believe they have an open invite :) - Rob La Gesse

The last time I saw Twitter participate in this sort of conversation was at BearHugCamp last fall.... and I suspect that left a bad taste in their mouth :-) - Ken Sheppardson

I'm curious if anyone invited them - Jesse Stay

But you can't do global Track across a federated system - Ken Sheppardson

But Kevin, what about tracking the firehose? - Cliff Gerrish

*somebody* needs to aggregate everything if you want to search across everything - Ken Sheppardson

*drink* someone mentioned Track - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

@Mason If PSHB handles the backbone problem of providing fan-in and then fan-out for millions of feeds, it makes it massively easier for people to focus on building innovative front ends. There isn't much opportunity for creativity in solving the backend problem -- that's why it is reasonable to build something like PSHB today. The really fun problems are the things that should be relying on PSHB as a source of feeds. Let PSHB do the boring backend problem -- you should focus on innovative clients. - Bob Wyman

drink - Rob La Gesse

or you need to delegate/distribute searches out to the hubs - Ken Sheppardson

Ken: that's a good point. - Robert Scoble

I need a drink! - Robert Scoble

Robert - grab some formula! - Rob La Gesse

But, "follow" isn't enough. We also need TRACK! - Bob Wyman

Or that other kind of milk. - Amyloo

There are certainly benefits to distribution and redundancy, but there *are* benefits to centralization. - Ken Sheppardson

Kevin has the key point, getting what you want... Discovery of what you want would be next... these hubs will be learning patterns of what is wanted. - Ben Hedrington

Or will it be too decentralized? - Ben Hedrington

Discovery on a federated/partitioned system is problematic. - Ken Sheppardson

but PSHB isn't for track, as you have said eloquently on the mailing list, Bob - Kevin Marks

live filtering? - Ankush Narula

So discovery is the next frontier? - Ben Hedrington

track remains a problem even with PSHB *but* using PSHB allows you to do a track across more than just one source - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Robert: chat room other than here? - David Stratton

discovery happens the same way you discover new blogs IMO - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

@Kevin: But, if I've got PSHB aggregating the feeds, it makes it really, really easy for me to build a server that *does* do track on the stuff that PSHB feeds to me. - Bob Wyman

Discovery has always been the new frontier - Francine Hardaway

David: this is the chat room. - Robert Scoble

Hubbub allows some central search provider subscribe to everything, then people can subscribe to the search provider... but there just has to be some way to discover/broadcast which feeds are out there... this is an issue with SUP, btw... discovery. You have to know a feed's SUP ID first. - Ken Sheppardson

okay, thought so - David Stratton

I guess I wasn't being 2010 enough. This is the chat feed. :-) - Robert Scoble

So you mean if you want to do research or market research you will pay - Francine Hardaway

@bobwyman sure, but that isn't the usecase Robert says he wants; he needs a mass crawl for that - Kevin Marks

Francine: and restaurants will pay $10 a month to have their own Twitter. - Robert Scoble

I remember the Microsoft guy at BearHugCamp last fall was wondering why anybody would ever want to build a Track system, rather than just leave it to Google... - Ken Sheppardson

I'm a set of keywords, I'm looking for a set of keywords - Arnie Klaus

Of course, Twitter will probably offer http://www.sushirestaurant.com/twitter at some point too. - Robert Scoble

Live regexp for big pipes sounds like a $1Billion dollar business. - Cliff Gerrish

we've been doing this stuff with MOM in financial market feeds - topic subscriptions, channels, etc. - Ankush Narula

@kevin, I dont' see the distinction. I can do track based on all that flows through the PSHB hubs. That's semantically equivelant to doing a "mass crawl" - Bob Wyman

And what will they really do with it? That they don't do now - Francine Hardaway

You can have one aggregator that controls the entire feed, or you can set the feed loose and let several companies aggregate from those. Same data, no single point of control. - Rob La Gesse

Francine: I can see a lot you would do if you had your own branded Twitter clone. - Robert Scoble

Every Hubbub hub could/should provide a local firehose to anyone who wants it. - Ken Sheppardson

distributed track is possible. Centralization only makes it easier. - Bob Wyman

Complex events processing... - Cliff Gerrish

@bobwyman only if all the hubs do collation for you, surely? Content-based filtering inot feeds on the hubs too - Kevin Marks

Bob: and even centralization isn't THAT easy. Twitter only shows you the last few days on http://search.twitter.com - Robert Scoble

How similar to JustSignal? - Francine Hardaway

This is similar to tracking multiple market centers (pools of liquidity) to get the right trade. - Cliff Gerrish

John Kalucki, a SQLstream co-founder, has been at Twitter for about 18 month now working on... wait for it... their firehose API. - Ken Sheppardson

Cliff: Now I understand - Francine Hardaway

the fun happens when PSHB allows for disparate streams to have firehoses - then all the search/filter geeks can do their thing - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

@Scoble: "history" is irrelevant to any system doing a real-time track. All you care about is the future -- not the past. Past is for "retrospective search," "track" is about "prospective search". - Bob Wyman

The future: filter, search, discover, curate - Francine Hardaway

So Twitter is trying to become FriendFeed? - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Sure we do. It's called TwitterSpy. Dustin Sallings built it two years ago - Ken Sheppardson

others have built the same thing... - Ken Sheppardson

Mike - so is Facebook :) - Rob La Gesse

Bob: I want both. - Robert Scoble

@bobwyman disagree - you need both flow and past; they complement one another - Kevin Marks

bear: I think if you look at some of the newer Twitter web clients, they're basically a FriendFeed-like UI on top of the Twitter message bus. - Ken Sheppardson

twitter retweet is going to make a lot of folks angry - not that I have any inside info or anything - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

bear: hah! - Robert Scoble

@Scoble: Of course you want both. I would never question that. The two halves of search compliment each other. Only retrospective or only prospective is only half the solution. Most of the systems you've ever used have only solved half the problem . - Bob Wyman

bear: Justine Bateman's already mad about it. :-) - Ken Sheppardson

Bob: agreed. FriendFeed came close to solving both. - Robert Scoble

London here :) - Bastian

New York here... - Bob Wyman

hawaii here - Arnie Klaus

Texas - Rob La Gesse

Philadelphia - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

NYC - Ankush Narula

Just got a 503 on Twitter... we breaking it real time? - Ben Hedrington

Washington State - Steve Hammer

San Francisco (not Silcon Valley ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

canberra, Aust - Hilary Talbot

Dana Point, CA here - michael sean wright

nice thing we started here - Bastian

Wow - what a nice distribution! - Rob La Gesse

Ben - no - Twitter's auth API is having trouble right now - my monitoring alerts are going berserk about it - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Minneapolis, MN - Ben Hedrington

RSS!! - michael sean wright

Arizona - Francine Hardaway

awww...RSS :-) - Jodi Church

RSS, welcome to the world. - Bob Wyman

RSS lives! - Mason Lee

Don;t know how Scoble had a cute baby :) I mean, Maryam is cute, but Robert? Hee - Rob La Gesse

LOL @RSS... - Karoli

That gives new meaning to RSS stream. - Steve Hammer

when he farts - do you call it an rssCloud? ;-) - Ankush Narula

welcome to the intertubes RSS! - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

@ankush LOL! - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Rocky looks so cute petting him - Francine Hardaway

Ankush, FTW! - Karoli

Careful - Rocky looks hungry! - Rob La Gesse

loved the mp3 of the sounds of RSS greeting the world - michael sean wright

Your saving it all for his great, great grandkids! - Arnie Klaus

I need to run! :) - David Recordon

Thanks man ttyl - Brett Slatkin

lots of spamming yesterday - Karoli

it was a classic phishing scam - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Good to hear about http://superfeedr.com! - Julien

2 different things - Karoli

If you were using SocialToo you wouldn't have gotten those messages :-) - Jesse Stay

they're able to insert messages into your stream when you don't follow via the Twitter API - Karoli

PSHB is not really decentralized from the client's perspective-- there will be one front end: google. - Mason Lee

Diversity is important in *any* ecosystem... - Bob Wyman

It's funny that I'm getting a fail whale on the Gillmor Gang. - Robert Scoble

it's the same with your computer network - all the same server means you are pwned by a single attack - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Steve Gillmor needs his Twitter anti-virus (SocialToo) :-) - Jesse Stay

DNS - Eric Florenzano

Gmail - Ken Sheppardson

Commonality in protocols -- diversity in servers. - Bob Wyman

oh, wait... - Ken Sheppardson

Twitter is down hard now. - Robert Scoble

Ok, really need to go now! Thanks and talk to everyone later. - David Recordon

I'm gettting 503 server error. - Robert Scoble

everyone gets nervous when we add a layer on top of the web stack... - Ankush Narula

yea, i'm getting hard errors from Twitter in my server alerts - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Ahh, it's back. - Robert Scoble

One day Twitter just won't come back. - Ken Sheppardson

i was, but it's working again for me - Jodi Church

Yeah - API's having issues too - Jesse Stay

Still 503 here - Ken Sheppardson

@ken - then, we will all sleep. - Rob La Gesse

Ken: Not after it has raise $100m - Francine Hardaway

Its google wave getting ready to go live. - Arnie Klaus

it's both - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Annie: Hah! - Ben Hedrington

The problem comes in ownership of the resource. In the decentralized web, we share the pipes in neutral fashion. But, "commercial" people tend to violate net neutrality rules. Like Twitter deciding who can and cannot read their data. That is a net neutrality failure... - Bob Wyman

Only portrayed that way by the FSF/GPL extremists - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Love the sound of Skype in the morning - Bastian

@bear: We should profit by competing on the service we provide users -- not on how much of user's data we have captured. - Bob Wyman

Bob: and what about Facebook's front door being completely locked? - Ankush Narula

@bob agree 100% - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Is he saying Dave Winer's naive? :-) - Jesse Stay

Bob: agree. Jesse: I think so. - Robert Scoble

He's saying light pinging won't work. - Cliff Gerrish

*smack* - Rob La Gesse

@Ankush I'm seriously hoping that the new hires at Facebook help steer them away from the dark side :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

So to argue in Twitter and Facebook's defense, they're not just a neutral pass through. They're adding value to the system, and they'd argue that they shouldn't be "forced" to just let that walk out the back door. - Ken Sheppardson

I'd like to see Dave Winer's response to that - Jesse Stay

@ankush , Folk don't always agree with me. But, I believe that users should control access to their data and they should make decisions based on what is in their interest -- the people who run the services that people use should *not* be the ones deciding what access controls will be enforced. - Bob Wyman

so do you see there being an APi to Google's crawl for use in this, Bob? - Kevin Marks

Because of stampeding herds? - Mason Lee

I'm a big +1 on the fat ping - Eric Florenzano

Jesse: I'm sure you will (see the response) - Ken Sheppardson

Mike: if Facebook doesn't get its public service act together they will see themselves becoming the next MySpace. In the early adopter audience it already is. - Robert Scoble

Bob/Mike - i'm in full agreement - but when you're building a service that has zero monetization (twitter) - what else can your valuation be based on other than your core data assets? - Ankush Narula

I think Facebook is getting it together. Connect is their answer, but they're also slowly opening up search as well. - Jesse Stay

Of course they have FriendFeed now to keep the early adopters inside the Facebook tent, but there's a lot more early adopters on Twitter than here. - Robert Scoble

@robert agree completely - I had already zero'd out my profile and moved to FF - but the FF folks moving to FB made me give them more time - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bob/Mike - as for FB - I hope so too - Ankush Narula

Of course, you are better off doing it on Rackspace :) - Rob La Gesse

Jesse: I agree with you. - Robert Scoble

Don't build services that have no legitimate path to profit. In that case, you should be building protocols whose costs can be shared by the community and then build your business by creating the best tools for using the protocol. - Bob Wyman

popping in to listen to RL Gilmor Gang stream #gillmorgang - Del_

Bob - Sounds ideal - but knowing the history of Twitter - I suspect they were much more concerned about uptime rather than the public good - Ankush Narula

robert and rob: speaking of using Rackspace, Cartus put my contract on hold while they figure out their needs - David Stratton

"Has *2* Bs"?? Doesn't it have, like 12? - Ken Sheppardson

pub sub hub bub (five bs) - Robert Scoble

activitystrea.ms is yet another endpoint that can be connected to PSHB - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

@Ankush I don't know who was thinking what. But, I do know that those who focus on "public good" typically write protocols, not walled garden closed sites. - Bob Wyman

Sidewiki is so not a wiki - Ken Sheppardson

I think it's actually "pub/sub hubbub" - I'm usually wrong though - Jesse Stay

I want Sidewiki to have Wave support - Jesse Stay

Bob - fair enough :-) - Ankush Narula

Locking a new "feature" into relying on me installing a toolbar is a GREAT way to make sure I don;t play with it. - Rob La Gesse

ooh - I hear tension in the realms of Google :-) - Jesse Stay

you would have to gather a set of wave changesets and then push that out via PSHB - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Rob: I'm sure they'll support it in Chrome too, eventually - Ken Sheppardson

It's PSHB vs. Wave - who will win? :-) - Jesse Stay

you guys are nuts :-) - Loic Le Meur

Wave *IS* XMPP - Ken Sheppardson

Loic is in the building :) - Rob La Gesse

Loic it's Celine Dion isn't it? :-) (how's it going?) - Jesse Stay

nope - Loic Le Meur

Where's my Wave invitation? - Francine Hardaway

The Wave protocol is just an extension of XMPP - Ken Sheppardson

good try though - Loic Le Meur

PSHB and Wave don't compete. They do different things. Othogonal. PSHB does *nothing* in the last-mile user interface space. - Bob Wyman

Loic: thanks for filling infor me. - Robert Scoble

dang - I'm going to figure it out one of these days - Jesse Stay

Francine: don't worry, I don't have one either. - Robert Scoble

oh robert, no thank YOU - Loic Le Meur

XMPP is also nice in that completes the last mile. - Mason Lee

I had a blast being you for 24 hours - Loic Le Meur

Seemed like a good conference watching it on my iPhone. - Robert Scoble

XMPP is great for "last mile" as well as for reasonable number of persistent connections on teh backend. - Bob Wyman

Great conversation guys! - Ben Hedrington

I LOVED Tony Robbins, I was expecting to hate him so that was a pleasant surprise, best speaker I have ever seen. Such a stage presence. amazing/ - Loic Le Meur

Great show, everyone - Rob La Gesse

great show! - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Enjoyed listening/watching - Ankush Narula

Great discussion here. Thanks Brett, et al. - Mason Lee

That was very good - thanks Steve - Jesse Stay

thank you - Hilary Talbot

/me is wondering why everyone thanks everyone - Loic Le Meur

@Loic It's because we americans are so polite! - Bob Wyman

Thanks, Loic, I was wondering that myself. - Mason Lee

Errr... That was a joke. - Bob Wyman

LOL - Loic Le Meur

social networking - Arnie Klaus

don't get me started - Loic Le Meur

Good show Steve, thank you all for making the time. - David Stratton

You rang? - John Kalucki

Hey John! When are you going to be on the Gillmor Gang? - Jesse Stay

quick - get Steve back on video - Twitter is here! - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

John is in charge of Twitter's Streaming API, FYI - Jesse Stay

I totally didn't realize John had a FriendFeed account - awesome - Jesse Stay

I skimmed most of the conversation. I didn't see any explicit questions to respond to, or that haven't been addressed on the twitter-dev list about pubhub... - John Kalucki

have you looked at PubSubHubbub John? - Kevin Marks

As far as the Streaming API rules, we'll work on them. The user TOS and API rules just went out last week. - John Kalucki

John - except that a lot of the folks who were asking don't regularly read the twitter dev list :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Let me find the link... - John Kalucki

Heh :-) - Jesse Stay

http://groups.google.com/group... - John Kalucki

I'd just like to be able to standardize my code and not have to re-write for every new social network out there. - Jesse Stay

But we've had this conversation. :-) - Jesse Stay

how about activitystrea.ms support, John? You going to write the shim or do we have to? - Kevin Marks

Activitystrea.ms support seems unlikely. A shim would probably be seen as syndication. - John Kalucki

Overall, the direction is towards exposing more data types, more predicate types, and supporting more use cases. Format and protocol support, while making developer's lives easier, isn't as high priority as some of the proposed features we're considering. - John Kalucki

That's too bad John - hard to be the "pulse of the internet" if you're not supporting open standards - Jesse Stay

Hey JK! Welcome! How goes? - Ken Sheppardson

Hey Ken. It goes. It goes. - John Kalucki

Looks like we still have 27 viewers for a test pattern... - Cliff Gerrish

I missed this shooooooot! need regular calendared events so i can add you guys to my schedule! :) - Susan Beebe

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