Gillmor Gang, Live Recording Session at 1p

tuning in and tweeting buds! - Kathleen Hassinger

Who's on today? (apart from me) - Kevin Marks

I should be. My Skype just crashed, though. Now waiting for call again. - Robert Scoble

what luck. Awake in Brisbane too early and just in time for this. Never works when I'm home! - Aron Michalski

Heheh. So easy to get you on Jeremy! - Robert Scoble

clive, you still getting an echo? - Robert Scoble

Soz, was my double click - clive boulton

Watch out Chris - Steve is not a fan of Google - Kenny

How long before Steve say's "Google's in trouble" - Kenny

http://windowsteamblog.com/windows... was interesting - Kevin Marks

haha - Kenny

that's certainly true for people who work on the road. - Aron Michalski

We don't have the recipe for Coke either - Stephen Pickering

Stephen - exactly! - Kenny

bingo Chris. - Aron Michalski

Ping is not very social, I'm sure it will be someday but right now it's weak - Kenny

isn't social being used to sell things in Facebook too? - Xenophrenia

it's just not as obvious there - Xenophrenia

future purchases - it's the ads and personal info that's at work there - Xenophrenia

I think twitter has more chance there than facebook - Kevin Marks

That's why FB isn't as obvious ;-) - Xenophrenia

at some point the Google car will take you where it thinks you might like to go ;-) - Xenophrenia

looks like it's #AskEv time again on twitter - Kevin Marks

#fbgroups - Chris Messina

Facebook groups does enable tummeling; makes it easier for the social catalysers to connect people - Kevin Marks

it's appeal is it's ubiquity - which is also it's enmity ;-) .... - Xenophrenia

I like their implementation - Chris Messina

Buzz, though not adopted widely,is very interesting in how it layers in the different entry points (web, phone, Maps, etc) and especially for traveling. Get a sense of location in many countries. Wish there were more users. - Aron Michalski

FT > Party is over for US music downloads....Translates to Apple Ping party over? - clive boulton

but if you quit you can NEVER go back - this is something a danger for legitimate groups - if you change your mind later - you're out of luck - have they changed this? - Xenophrenia

Depends on the group settings. - Chris Messina

You can request to join open groups, I think. - Chris Messina

but there is some segmentation happening here between facebook and twitter - Kevin Marks

along which lines? - Chris Messina

facebook seems to enforce/imply more social interactions than twitter, facebook won't let me lurk easily for example - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

I really don't cross my Twitter Stream and my Facebook stream. Some people are in common but it's two totally different conversations. - Aron Michalski

Facebook, like Buzz, has instability if you follow someone who is very connected, it gets noisy fast. On Twitter this is naturally damped. @zoecello can have 1.3 million followers and still hold a conversation - Kevin Marks

they're not friends at that point, they're an audience. Who has that many friends? - Aron Michalski

...and there are better tools for scaling/broadcasting communications - Chris Messina

Aron: define "friend." - Robert Scoble

Aron: old-school definition: someone who will come and help you move, or sit with you while you're in the hospital. - Robert Scoble

If you define friend that way, you'll only have a handful. - Robert Scoble

that's my point - Zoe can get @ replies from a million without that spamming them, but by default she can talk to a few hundred she follows - Kevin Marks

But if you define friend "the facebook" way, that is anyone who you want in your social graph. - Robert Scoble

If you define friend the new way, then you can have thousands of friends. - Robert Scoble

The definition has changed but so has the concept of conversation. - Aron Michalski

maybe we need a different word for one of these friend types then? - Xenophrenia

Xeno: yes. But I think the human brain is OK with friends on social networks being different than friends who'll be invited over for dinner tonight. - Robert Scoble

I've always wanted to use the word "interest" instead of "friend" - I would then be registering my interest in Robert - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Mike: my intrest in you, though, is one of those people I'd like to have dinner with someday. So, are we friends? Heheh. - Robert Scoble

interest has some different connotations for the female recipient though ;-) ... if I'm your interest it could be uncomfortable in certain situations (just as example) ... - Xenophrenia

I notice that the Facebook download is missing microformats, and external links. Also that the video pages link to the video still on FB. I should do an analysis post. - Kevin Marks

Robert: yes, that is the pain with any of the graphs - the outliers who fall into multiple categories. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

For people outside this community ("social", "online") like my wife, these friends are imaginary and have little to do with "real" life. I don't agree but it shows that this new perception of friends is not universal. - Aron Michalski

My wife used to think that my web friends were imaginary, until she met some of them... - Kevin Marks

Trouble with Groups is, all my Facebook "Friends" are like old High School and College buddies who don't necessarily have the same interest I do now. - Stephen Pickering

Or you might not want to be personal friends with someone that has created a group you want to be part of - Stephen Pickering

You can connect to everyone you've ever known if you like, but you don't have to. And when you create groups, you can be explicit about who to include from that graph. - Chris Messina

Re Seth: http://www.arcticstartup.com/2009... - Chris Messina

Right, collection/grouping should always be from the point of view of the user - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

at some point the vernacular will change just due to usage and societal shifts as this fleshes out - in the meantime ..... - Xenophrenia

These services and clients who offer groups and lists provide you with a tool to segment the levels of interaction/trust/communication but for stream watchers it's like looking in different mailboxes. - Aron Michalski

Chris: watch this company: http://www.kiha.com/ In fact, you should see it before it releases in November. They are awesome for Android phones. Google should buy this company to jumpstart its move into social. - Robert Scoble

Cool, will check it out. - Chris Messina

Chris: this looks like the thing that will make me an Android fan. - Robert Scoble

(I am under NDA, wish I could say more). - Robert Scoble

Also http://kinoma.com/play/ is very interesting as a phone experience infrastructure - Kevin Marks

Track; still important after all these years. - Aron Michalski

should be able to have hashtags that don't take up your 140 characters ;-) - Xenophrenia

just don't give me any hfcs ;-) - Xenophrenia

All the lonely people, where do they all come from? - Kevin Marks

just waiting for life to pass them by - Xenophrenia

they already do. - Aron Michalski

and there's the Beatles reference - Tina Chase Gillmor

is the internet the highway in the sky? ;-) - Xenophrenia

newsgroups had weak identity - Chris Messina

America I think isn't it Kevin? - Xenophrenia

news groups initially had email as identity - email used to be hard to get and fairly strong - Kevin Marks

kevin: agreed - Ankush Narula

right - Chris Messina

This comes back to identity, doesn't it? - Aron Michalski

I remember when 'the internet white pages' was published by scraping emails from newsgroups in 1995 or so - Kevin Marks

i mean that an email (sans webfinger) provides few identity attributes - Chris Messina

i.e. face/name - Chris Messina

The strong social graph is what newsgroups lacked - Ankush Narula

true. WebFinger fixes that well - Kevin Marks

it was an implicit graph - Chris Messina

newsgroups were the social graph - one of affiliation - Kevin Marks

that's why I said Facebook groups were their Eternal September - Kevin Marks

;-) ... two different songs ... as usual ... went off in my own direction - Xenophrenia

ha - Ankush Narula

Newsgroups sucked because anyone could join and that let spammers come in and ruin them. - Robert Scoble

and identity (email) became easy to get - Chris Messina

Plus, all the other problems with hierarchies that Gillmor's talking about. - Robert Scoble

an identity-based economy means identity — valuable identity — should be hard to derive, except over time - Chris Messina

robert: that wasn't always the case... - Ankush Narula

there was definitely a time where newsgroups were extremely useful and not spammed - Ankush Narula

as there always is a time like that when a system is open/decentralized - Chris Messina

without antibodies, every open system is overcome by parasites - Chris Messina

the challenge is making the transition from lonely to conversational without overshooting into noisy - Kevin Marks

oh how many layers of manipulations can we have with this ;-)? ... - Xenophrenia

Actually, originally news groups could rely on 'finger' as the general internet/arpanet infrastructure was much more open (internally) and accessible. That is to say, each users email-like ID was fingerable. - Darren

true - Chris Messina

unmoderated - Xenophrenia

yes, finger was the original profile page. Hence WebFinger - Kevin Marks

Valuable identity="weight"- is so much more visible in the stream. Groups can/will give the less popular/weighty people a way to be seen/heard too, for better and certainly worse. - Aron Michalski

Brad Fitzpatrick implemented a Finger server as part of his webfinger demo - Kevin Marks

so that's moderation... they had those newsgroups too - Ankush Narula

any large gathering of people requires a combination of identity (so you can *know* who the other person is) and curation/gardening - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

yup - Ankush Narula

yes bear, exactly (though I call it tummeling) - Kevin Marks

micromessage in space ... did I hear that right? ... I like that notion - Xenophrenia

and the authenticity of identity will be important for the groups to protect their value. - Aron Michalski

kevin - yes, tummelling is a word that describes it that I learned from you and Heather - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

a group of common interest/like thinkers/"religion" can have influence and weight in a world where an unpopular individual doesn't. - Aron Michalski

is that why Buzz is attached to email? - Xenophrenia

the medium of delivery is so often used (wrongly IMO) when tech folks talk about the message - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Love it. I actually built a PoC IMAP + SMTP Activity Streams / Salmon proxy system for Cliqset. - Darren

Chris: Clever - Ankush Narula

but mail admins would hate you! ;-) - Ankush Narula

Every object has it's own email address? Oh boy, I was just resisting 'things' in addressbooks in VCARD 4 - Kevin Marks

don't think of it as email - Chris Messina

kevin - s/email address/URI/ - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

smtp is just a courier for the message - Chris Messina

yup - Ankush Narula

you could also use PuSH - Chris Messina

the idea was to use the existing infrastructure / protocols to support messaging between systems. - Darren

yes - Chris Messina

the owner of the identity should be able to specify how the message is delivered - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

there are people who print things out and snail mail it to friends ... that just floors me ;-) - Xenophrenia

Buzz: Chris Messina commented on your post - Ankush Narula

Also: most people would never read these emails... - Chris Messina

the inbox would treat these messages as notifications and bundle them up for you... - Chris Messina

or those who send video files around when they could just send you a YouTube link - Tina Chase Gillmor

i already have that for twitter [email protected] - Ankush Narula

Steve is getting better at pimping chatter - Ross Mayfield

the email view is a fallback for those outside the connected standard - Kevin Marks

email = smtp notifications with pointers to an atom/activitystreams payload - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

@blaine was explaining this to me too - Kevin Marks

interesting... so sender/recipient would be objects in the activitystream? - Ankush Narula

sure - Chris Messina

Chris, I like it, but like Steve believe the primary transit mechanism would be microblogging - Ross Mayfield

everything could emit and receive email notifications - Chris Messina

what's the difference? - Chris Messina

we still need uniqueid @ domain - Chris Messina

SmtpBub - Ankush Narula

heh - Chris Messina

Ross: I was thinking that too! - Robert Scoble

it all falls back to needing a way of managing identity - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

email is most often used as a surrogate for identity - Chris Messina

maybe because of it's heritage - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

thanks - Chris Messina

Chris... now you've got my brain racing - Ankush Narula

sweet! ;) - Chris Messina

interesting conversations ... ;-) - Xenophrenia

Thanks for feeding my brain, everybody. - Aron Michalski

enjoyed it - Chris Messina

thanks for the good talk - Ankush Narula

Cheers, great show - Stephen Pickering

see y'all - Chris Messina

Great show. Thanks everyone. Thanks Robert, Seth, Kevin, Chris. Thanks chat people. You make the show more valuable with your conversation - Tina Chase Gillmor

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