Gillmor Gang, Live Recording Session at 12 Noon PT. Participate at http://www.building43.com/realtim...
Susan Beebe,
Roberto Bonini,
Alex de Soto,
Karoli,
Rob Michael (Atmos Trio),
Mike Doeff,
Robert Scoble,
Matt M (inactive),
Cliff Gerrish,
Thomas Page,
sofarsoShawn,
and
ReligionandStateinIsrael
liked this
f8 is today's topic, I assume?
- Matt M (inactive)
Could be.
- Cliff Gerrish
Gillmor Gang will get underway in about 5 minutes.
- Cliff Gerrish
OK, waiting for the call.
- Robert Scoble
Today's music, while on hold, Ghostland Observatory. Of course if you are friends of me on Pandora/Facebook you already know that. :-)
- Robert Scoble
looking forward to listening to this on youtube later
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Marshall: Or Pandora: http://bit.ly/8ZZdon
- Robert Scoble
heh, no I mean to the show :) that's how i tend to consume the Gang, with youtube on iphone in my pocket while i'm out walking my dogs.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
my dogs hear the GG theme song, Steve's voice, and they go nuts, jumping all over, looking for their leashes. it's a whole family thing.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Live now, thanks!
- Robert Scoble
Present and accounted for!
- Stephen Pickering
is facebook still on track to serve 1billion 'likes' within 24hrs?
- michael sean wright
smallish number of people "liking" the example code. ;-)
- Ian McGee
Marshall - there is a feed for the audio only version (comes out a couple days after the show) - http://173.203.214.15/podcast...
- Rob La Gesse
2 sites I visited today got hung up due to facebook integration. how much does this slow down the web?
- michael sean wright
OK, I think I'm ready to stop watching this now. This is really annoying.
- Matt M (inactive)
It's an iframe.
- Cliff Gerrish
this is the same data facebook has on us.
- michael sean wright
It's an iframe, but it's initialized via JS.
- Matt M (inactive)
Yeah, it's moving a bookmarklet off the chrome and into the page.
- Cliff Gerrish
Go Cowboys!
- Rob La Gesse
Da Boys!
- Stephen Pickering
one company owning the social graph.
- michael sean wright
Are you talking about Twitter?
- Cliff Gerrish
What's missing is context though. I Like articles on some topics with some friends, and completely different with my kids and even other with distant relatives. Tools coming to manage this?
- Ian McGee
once upon a time, people feared doubleclick having so much data on us, pales in comparison to what facebook now has. facebook wants to be the layer between you and the net. how many people are going to by default, stay logged in to facebook not knowing that facebook is still there, collecting as you surf 100's of sites?
- michael sean wright
Google and Microsoft also want to be the layer between you and the world. Twitter does too.
- Cliff Gerrish
that's all nice, but I have no intention of mashing everything up over on facebook. over there I'm just another face on the book.
- Karoli
but as more sites adopt these really powerful FB "social widgets"...it will be hard to just be a face on the book...
- .LAG liked that
The age allows Facebook to show me hair growth ads :)
- Mike Doeff
the big push back is not being able to outrun the reach of facebook. it's one thing to willingly abide by the rules of using facebook while there but to be leaking data back while i'm not there is not kosher. a cookie can only tell a third party a few things, my social graph is who i am.
- michael sean wright
+1 Michael
- .LAG liked that
I don't know that it's true to say that your 'social graph' is 'who you are.'
- Cliff Gerrish
Michael - your social graph does not belong to you. Deal with it :)
- Rob La Gesse
Google social search is really neat
- Susan Beebe
Social graph is a network of which you may be a node.
- Cliff Gerrish
Gaming the system is age-old. BFD
- Karoli
Rob - I agree but I feel a responsibility to those in my social graph to consider the cost of dragging them along the facebookweb.
- michael sean wright
Social behavioral search is valuable for understanding the web in context of your friends interests
- Susan Beebe
I'm just happy you guys aren't talking about the iPad again.
- Alex de Soto
Andrew shouldn't be calling FriendFeed a POS with the creator there, that's just impolite
- Stephen Pickering
Gee, I wonder how great Facebook will be on the iPad?
- Cliff Gerrish
Let's talk about Facebook on the iPad :)
- Rob La Gesse
hehe
- Susan Beebe
Oh nooooo!
- Alex de Soto
Yes, bring FF koolaid over to FB
- Susan Beebe
Bret said yesterday that no resources from Facebook are being used for FriendFeed.
- michael sean wright
feed fart
- Rob La Gesse
lost the feed
- Susan Beebe
me too
- .LAG liked that
Everything went down
- Robert Scoble
ditto
- Mike Doeff
My Skype disconnected.
- Robert Scoble
gotta love technology
- Susan Beebe
I guess Gillmor's net connection went down.
- Robert Scoble
Please wait while Facebook reboots the Internet
- Rob La Gesse
overheated :)
- Mike Doeff
.LOLz!
- .LAG liked that
OK :D
- Susan Beebe
Hang out a few seconds, let's see if they come back.
- Robert Scoble
Right, the most important issue is getting Fiber to the Curb, Gigabit Internet, that's the real revolution
- Stephen Pickering
We are coming back.
- Robert Scoble
We can talk about the iPad while we wait.
- Rob La Gesse
Good
- Susan Beebe
I'm connected again, be back in a second.
- Robert Scoble
iPad iPad iPad
- Mike Doeff
Facebook as the single point of failure for the Net...
- .LAG liked that
we're back!
- Susan Beebe
Cool.
- Robert Scoble
Once we have fiber, no one will control the internet or be a point of failure
- Stephen Pickering
Whoever controls the fiber will control the Internet - to some extent
- Rob La Gesse
The Fiber Barrons!!!
- Stephen Pickering
That was Enron ;)
- Rob La Gesse
No, wasn't it that Mississippi Company?
- Stephen Pickering
what about authorized apps?
- michael sean wright
I wish Kevin Marks was here, he brought up some technical points that I didn't understand about this on TWiG yesterday
- Stephen Pickering
Somebody needs to do a remedial review of iframes and same origin restrictions.
- Cliff Gerrish
How many users are going to understand that the data isn't shared?
- Alex de Soto
The iframed code can get the URL of the parent, but that's it.
- Cliff Gerrish
Kevin brought up that the code they are using, and Gina Tripani agreed, was not open standard
- Stephen Pickering
I mean the code you would put on your site
- Stephen Pickering
Alex: not many
- Robert Scoble
Big difference between an explicit Like button and something like Glue where any pages that you surf to - e.g. an imdb page - show up in your history
- Mike Doeff
Not the code that Kevin developed for Google. And not Activity Streams.
- Cliff Gerrish
oooh I didn't realize that the 3 partners MS, Yelp & Pandora have exclusive / separate data contracts with facebook - NOT same as social plugins...oooo
- Susan Beebe
right - the code is facebook code not standard activity stream.
- michael sean wright
Thanks Cliff and Michael, I wonder if we can get someone to pose the question to Bret about that concern
- Stephen Pickering
Activity stream is an open standard - but this points up the difference between having a standard and 450 million users; and just having a standard.
- Cliff Gerrish
but would you sign one with zynga?
- michael sean wright
we can hear Steve via the building43.com ok
- Susan Beebe
...what about the pRon site that writes a really big check?
- .LAG liked that
Bret, what about a Like button that someone puts on their blog and they configure it with a URL to some spam site - e.g. teeth whitening. How do you prevent that?
- Mike Doeff
Mike - and that's rampant already.
- michael sean wright
Bret - NICE JOB on f8 :) love it
- Susan Beebe
Now time for the iPad phase of the show
- Mike Doeff
Good!! I was worried Steve would end the show. I'm glad he didn't
- Stephen Pickering
Agreed - it's a tectonic shift on web. Facebook just pwnd Google :P
- Susan Beebe
Beacon without the Bacon :)
- Susan Beebe
not only was it a huge shift, it's an over reach on a scale we've never seen.
- michael sean wright
facebook can already segment traffic by geo, gender, age, etc.
- Susan Beebe
Just because Facebook wins, doesn't mean Google loses, this isn't a zero sum game
- Stephen Pickering
the scary thing is the amount of publishers tripping over themselves to give control of their community to facebook.
- michael sean wright
facebook just made static sites instantly social - and ties it all back to the mothership - freakin' awesome move
- Susan Beebe
Static sites still need to include the code -- there's an action that needs to be taken first.
- Cliff Gerrish
Susan, agreed
- Stephen Pickering
What about all of the people opting out of Facebook Instant Personalization? Fringe group or is this the majority? http://search.twitter.com/search...
- Mike Doeff
This re invigorates the Open Web
- Stephen Pickering
Google knows what you search for - YAWN.
- Susan Beebe
Cliff, but there's a big incentive
- Stephen Pickering
Facebook is generating a whole new layer of the social web - THAT's revolutionary
- Susan Beebe
It's the social index vs. the page index.
- Cliff Gerrish
Right - facebook just added huge amount of CONTEXT to page index stats
- Susan Beebe
...so in the end, it's all just another advertising play?
- .LAG liked that
google = small teams working on disparate tools and being fully aware of scrutiny. facebook = full scale push towards $ with 100% focus on the big return.
- michael sean wright
Exactly, but do you know how big the Advertising Market is?
- Stephen Pickering
it's HUGE
- .LAG liked that
disclaimer: I work in advertising
- .LAG liked that
I see the Facebook initiative as part of the maturation of the web. Accountability instead of anonymity becomes the predominant meme.
- Jim Posner
LOL :D
- Susan Beebe
But Michael, if Facebook behaves "evil" the Free Market will regulate them
- Stephen Pickering
Yep, GraphAPI is huge
- Susan Beebe
Social Graph! Network of your friends, shows your connectedness
- Susan Beebe
...that's a lot of biz cards Scobleizer
- .LAG liked that
facebook has acted evil, slow to change and constant confusing changes to policy hasn't hindered them yet. they have not earned our trust yet by default of size we just let it slide.
- michael sean wright
...Michael: that's my biggest concern -- their technology is awesome -- their trustworthiness has not been established
- .LAG liked that
Thank good we're not yet talking about social G-R-A-F-T. You know, implants on your skin that connect to the Network.
- Alex de Soto
All companies have 'acted evil'
- Cliff Gerrish
Alex... FB did announce an RFID product... you will be chipped, eventually
- .LAG liked that
It's the hive mind
- Mike Doeff
So what's the next step with Facebook RFID chip? LBS checkins? obviously, much more *could* be done with it
- Susan Beebe
Big brother :)
- Susan Beebe
Anybody have Gray Powell on their graph?
- Alex de Soto
1984
- Stephen Pickering
the new world will also include a definition of your social graph, the more you interact with a particular node the more prominence it receives.
- michael sean wright
really think the evil vs. non-evil is a cartoonish way to view the world. Only in comics does that world view work.
- Jim Posner
they didn't talk about mobile because geo tagging is not ready yet according to bret
- michael sean wright
I do too
- Stephen Pickering
facebook + docs is very interesting.
- Cliff Gerrish
yes, weird to see M$ & facebook partnership
- Susan Beebe
Susan, not considering their big investment early on
- Stephen Pickering
Ah, good point.
- Susan Beebe
I broke FB -> docs within seconds http://img.skitch.com/2010042...
- Rob La Gesse
Smart move by M$ to instantly get Docs.com to go mainstream by leveraging facebook platform as the backend for collaboration messaging
- Susan Beebe
New often means "broken" these days
- Rob La Gesse
Yes, but it still has to perform. Google Docs will constantly innovate
- Stephen Pickering
I don't see myself using docs.com. I only use MS Office products at work. Outside of work it's all Google Docs for me.
- Mike Doeff
...no company is unstoppable
- .LAG liked that
Correct link :) http://img.skitch.com/2010042...
- Rob La Gesse
I don't see the privacy concern. One can completely lock down their Facebook account if they want
- Stephen Pickering
I am really glad to see Google get some real competition.
- Jim Posner
Robert don't count out Bebo :)
- Mike Doeff
Robert is overstating. Twitter is a Juggernaut too
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen... yes, you can lock down your FB account, but it's not as easy as it might seem, and I suspect 100s of millions of users simply won't spend the time
- .LAG liked that
well said Steve
- Jim Posner
Stephen - a lot of normal users won't know what data is being shared or what the dangers are.
- Michele Neylon
the iPad's not important to justify its own Facebook app
- Tim Jones
Tim - it will be - VERY quickly
- Rob La Gesse
Michele, yes one weird thing I see is that even on completely locked down accounts, one can still see the photos is someone else who isn't locked down comments on one photo, anyone can see not only that photo but the whole album its a part of. Isn't that weird?
- Stephen Pickering
right - facebook is the strongest team, most momentum and brand. think the vulnerability is being too wide. the noise in the stream for the average user will overwhelm them. the general user is a scanner and not going deeper. good opportunity for more specific interest sites to grow. (theory only)
- michael sean wright
Really want to see a facebook app on the iPad
- Jim Posner
Stephen - there's a lot of that kind of thing and it freaks out a lot of people and it's far from easy to see what is or isn't being shared
- Michele Neylon
Do you think Facebook is trying to make a move against Apple for some reason by not putting out a Table app?
- Stephen Pickering
Jim, and when they release that they need to include video support. Very annoying that the FB app on iPhone doesn't support video.
- Mike Doeff
here comes the Android army. welcome Lenovo
- Tim Jones
But Scoble, you have to look at the value of the whole Eco System as a whole
- Stephen Pickering
Zynga are making a LOT of money
- Michele Neylon
85 million on Farmville
- Tim Jones
C'mon there must be some value there, if she wants to play this game
- Stephen Pickering
Steve is right - still early
- Mike Doeff
Would like to see Chrome or Firefox on the iPad
- Jim Posner
Zynga are very good at doing what they do
- Michele Neylon
But its not a competition. You can buy Beatles and Stones albums
- Stephen Pickering
Farmville is boring...and yet strangely addictive
- .LAG liked that
Although at the time, you were either a Beatles or Stones fan.
- Cliff Gerrish
The revolution is being updated.
- Jim Posner
Mafia Wars sucks you in .. no idea why, but it does ..
- Michele Neylon
waiting for capable Android or Win 7 slates
- Tim Jones
The revolution is being updated wirelessly on your mobile device.
- Cliff Gerrish
Michele, your right. It's almost unbelievable that a locked down account is opened simply by another friend commenting on a photo
- Stephen Pickering
the significant shift is the reach of layer facebook now has spread across the web. will be hard to be a layer on top of that.
- michael sean wright
...I like the "LIKE" button, and will be adding it to my sites
- .LAG liked that
I can't believe there hasn't been a lawsuit against that
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen - yup. I can see it happening :) And it won't be one lawsuit - it will be a whole load of them ..
- Michele Neylon
Stephen, Michele... you can prevent that from happening if you dig deep into the FB privacy settings to find the "what your friends share about you" panel...but it's BURIED
- .LAG liked that
in favelas people use netbooks, Nokias, no Apples to be found
- Tim Jones
It's really unbelievable. If I have a locked down account, it's opened simply by one of my friends commenting on one of my photos. Why is there no outcry?
- Stephen Pickering
slums I have been in..didn't have much internet access...they didn't have running water..
- Jim Posner
LAG, ah, IC. Really devious
- Stephen Pickering
So, they're in the letter of the law but not the Spirit
- Stephen Pickering
...I just think FB privacy defaults are bad for users, but GREAT for FB
- .LAG liked that
Addressing privacy concerns is important, but seems to be ignored by the "cool kids"
- Michele Neylon
Thanks Steve, Tina, et al !
- Rob La Gesse
Very good show, guys
- Ian McGee
yes, thanks! l8r
- .LAG liked that
Michele, I agree, the "influencers" are losing credibilty by not crying foul on this
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen: privacy is dead, get over it.
- Robert Scoble
Stephen - they've done more than not cry foul - and there you go - Scoble hath spoken (again)
- Michele Neylon
Robert I'm not worried about it, but if someone does choose to lock down their account, its opened simply by someone commenting on one of their photos. Don't you find that disturbing?
- Stephen Pickering
awesome job
- sofarsoShawn
Stephen: no. Don't put your private pictures on facebook.
- Robert Scoble
I have three naked photos of me on the Internet. I survived.
- Robert Scoble
So will you.
- Robert Scoble
Well, I'm not worried about it myself, My accounts completely open, but I'm just saying for those who truly only want friends and family
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen: if you only want friends and family don't use Facebook. Times change.
- Robert Scoble
Stephen: use SmugMug or Pipio.
- Robert Scoble
Jim , you need to check out the internet cafes in Barangay Magsaysay La Paz Iloilo Philippines. the machines all look like Alienwares
- Tim Jones
OK, OK, I've beat it too death!!! I see your point. I don't know why I'm even arguing it, since all my stuffs open anyway :-))
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen: exactly. Privacy is dead.
- Robert Scoble
Thanks everyone. Great show. Great participation from everyong.
- Cliff Gerrish
Stephen: if it weren't dead everyone would be moving to Pip.io.
- Robert Scoble
Stephen: and they are not. So the argument is over.
- Robert Scoble
Tim-Actually was in Tondo...not so much internet when I was there..but it's been a few years
- Jim Posner
Well, I'm just playing devils advocate. I've been excited by yesterday
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen: me too. I'm listening to Tom Conrad's Pandora. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Robert, that's bs about privacy being dead. here's my argument http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Stephen - just because Scoble likes to put naked photos of himself on the internet doesn't mean that other people want to.
- Michele Neylon
Yeah, that is just too cool, agreed
- Stephen Pickering
Marshall: if your argument had any weight everyone would be leaving Facebook. They aren't. The argument is over.
- Robert Scoble
Michele: I'm sure that that Apple guy wants his iPhone back too. It ain't gonna happen and we'll have to deal with the new world we all live in.
- Robert Scoble
Well Michele, .LAG did inform us that it could be done, a complete lock down, so that's that
- Stephen Pickering
really? people all over the world have been freaking out about Facebook's removal of privacy, I've been doing interviews with media outlets all over the world about it.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
and I think that's a logical fallacy
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Damn, my heads hurting
- Stephen Pickering
Marshall: I'm sure they are freaking out. But are they leaving? No.
- Robert Scoble
...this after-chat is better than the show!
- .LAG liked that
LogEx: I bet I understand privacy in more depth than you do.
- Robert Scoble
Stephen - the problem is that most people aren't aware of how much data they are sharing. Scoble's argument is incredibly weak.
- Michele Neylon
they can't leave Robert, their friends and family connections are trapped there
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Exactly, let the Free Market decide
- Stephen Pickering
LogEx: have you seen a Scoble sex video? I do have privacy. It is not dead. But a lot of my privacy is dead.
- Robert Scoble
Marshall - exactly
- Michele Neylon
LogEx: I have studied privacy and our changing society in more depth than anyone.
- Robert Scoble
Michele, that's a good point: you simply don't know how much is out there on FB, because you only see it through YOUR lens...
- .LAG liked that
LogEx: I just am bored with the argument as framed.
- Robert Scoble
Between yesterday and this http://librarianbyday.net/2010..., my heart is just about done with FB.
- Christopher Galtenberg
Yeah, I am too. Let's look at the Good Side at what they are doing.
- Stephen Pickering
LogEx: it's irresponsible to want to live in the world as it existed two days ago That world is gone. That's why it is NOT irresponsible to tell people that our ideas about privacy are dead.
- Robert Scoble
LogEx - agreed.
- Michele Neylon
LogEx: we all need to change our ideas about what privacy is and we need new skills to deal with the changing privacy world.
- Robert Scoble
People have choices. My Sister chooses not to be on Facebook and she is happy with her life
- Stephen Pickering
i usually don't worry about what mainstream people want or need, i just focus on what's interesting to me, but the privacy stuff is really dangerous and irresponsible
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
The less privacy, the less meaningful the sharing will be.
- Christopher Galtenberg
LogEx: for instance, I don't check in at home on Foursquare. I could, but I don't. Why is that?
- Robert Scoble
Because you have a free will and take responsibility for yourself
- Stephen Pickering
Marshall: the changing world is dangerous and irresponsible. 40,000 people die in cars every year. That worries more than if my naked photos are on the Internet.
- Robert Scoble
LogEx - exactly. If there was any level of privacy Scoble would cease to exist, as he only exists in public
- Michele Neylon
LogEx: EVERYONE is a public figure if they are on the Internet.
- Robert Scoble
Michele: bullshit.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I think it would depend on which photos those were.
- Cliff Gerrish
Michele: I existed before the Internet.
- Robert Scoble
Michele that's unfair. He's got a private life
- Stephen Pickering
Robert, one of my favorite examples: I had a friend tell me about people she knew who wanted to be Fans of a podcast for couples struggling to conceive children, but they didn't want family etc. to know about it. they used to be able to subscribe via Fandom privately, then that was made irrevocably public. why on earth are my subscriptions (facebook likes) not able to be private??
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
.LOLz! @Cliff
- .LAG liked that
Stephen - I'm sure he does
- Michele Neylon
Marshall Because they are not. Deal with it.
- Robert Scoble
But he chooses to share what he chooses to share and we all have that choice which is great
- Stephen Pickering
Marshall: I choose to live in the world as it is, not how I wish it to be. Although the world as I wish it to be makes for good blog posts.
- Robert Scoble
Stephen - that's not entirely true. I have the choice to take my car's engine apart, but I don't know how.
- Michele Neylon
Damn! I missed the show today.. I'm sure it was a good one. Hopefully a recorded archive will be up very soon!
- Kevin Costain
Marshall: Microsoft execs thought their emails were private too. Was it a shame that they were shared in public due to DOJ action?
- Robert Scoble
Targeted 'likes' to a private group -- sounds like a FriendFeed feature.
- Cliff Gerrish
well, the world as it is is a mess, i don't know why you don't want to use this huge platform you have to point out when things are moving far away from what you wish they'd be
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Marshall: I just don't put ANYTHING on a computer that I don't wish to have on the front page of the New York Times.
- Robert Scoble
We've had good discussions on this in the past. We're using *companies* to put things online. The only sane assumption should be zero privacy.
- Christopher Galtenberg
Marshall: and note that my drunken photos were on Techcrunch. I survived. Privacy is dead.
- Robert Scoble
Christopher: exactly. If it touches the keyboard it can be public.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: It is a great policy to do that - but there are places where private data does exist on computers. Where do you put your accounting data or stuff like that?
- Kevin Costain
well, for hundreds of millions of people they can either have private and secure Facebook communication with the people in their lives or they have no communication with them at all
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Christopher: the more people understand that the better off we'll all be.
- Robert Scoble
The fact that you survived is not equal to the idea that privacy is dead. Privacy is just a little more subtle now. More public signaling channels are available.
- Cliff Gerrish
Kevin: and how many "private" Twitter documents leaked onto Techcrunch. You can never assume total privacy.
- Robert Scoble
Marshall: give me a break. Most of us don't care about privacy.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, you aren't a woman who escaped an abusive relationship who wants to communicate securely and privately with an online support network. there are power issues at play, your drunk pics totally different
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
The only rub to this is that soon companies will force information out of you, because they only do business online, and they're the only option.
- Christopher Galtenberg
I like keeping my bank account info private..that privacy is not dead yet.
- Jim Posner
Marshall: most of the women I know who were abused were abused by people they knew in real life.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: those twitter docs were probably intended to be private - but at the smae time twitters internal financials weren't what was leaked.
- Kevin Costain
Jim: http://blippy.com
- Robert Scoble
totally, and then they want to communicate free of scrutiny from abusers, what's your point?
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Kevin: other companies have had their internal financials leaked.
- Robert Scoble
Bippy is opt-in
- Jim Posner
Kevin: and go with Zappos. They put their internal financials up on a white board in their lobby for everyone to see.
- Robert Scoble
Jim: yes. And so is Facebook.
- Robert Scoble
Blippy reminds me of paintings in the renaissance -- people had painters include the expensive items they could afford in their portraits. Another form of social signaling.
- Cliff Gerrish
Jim: so is turning on a computer.
- Robert Scoble
Hey, Robert, side note, do you agree with Gruber that Gizmodo should be prosecuted? Just curious. I don't know how I feel about it
- Stephen Pickering
Robert: Expectation of privacy is one thing.. and I agree that we cannot have an expectation. But, the other important thing is there is also data intended to be private.
- Kevin Costain
Agree..I still think there is privacy. email is still private..your salary is still private
- Jim Posner
Stephen: I wouldn't mind if Gizmodo were prosecuted. They received stolen property and profited off of it.
- Robert Scoble
When you type your pin in an atm (and that may be the only place you expose it electronically), should you have a reasonable expectation that that info will stay private?
- Kevin Costain
Jim: my salary has been discussed on the Internet, actually.
- Robert Scoble
Well, LogEx, you know the Golden Rule: He who has the Gold Rules!
- Stephen Pickering
Jim: it wasn't quite an accurate number, but that's cause a lot of my compensation is bonuses.
- Robert Scoble
...last week, Jerry Jones, owner of the Dallas Cowboys, was videotaped (camphone-taped) in a bar, having a "private" conversation where he made scathing remarks about a former head coach and some NFL draft prospects. the video ended up on YouTube and become a lead story on ESPN. I suppose the only place to expect privacy is inside your own home
- .LAG liked that
LAG: I don't expect privacy in my own home, either.
- Robert Scoble
...we have to draw the line somewhere, no?
- .LAG liked that
Privacy is what other people agree not to pass on.
- Cliff Gerrish
LAG: I do what I can to keep you from filming a sex video of me, but I'm sure sometime something will get out that I didn't expect to get out.
- Robert Scoble
Robert-There is alot of confidential information on computers that is private...IPSEC
- Jim Posner
Cliff: exactly.
- Robert Scoble
we all live in glass houses then
- .LAG liked that
Jim: yes. And a lot of that data leaks. Microsoft's emails, for instance.
- Robert Scoble
LAG: if you live your life like that then you'll never have any problems. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Should someone who wants to be private, be given it? Is it at least a basic human right?
- Kevin Costain
agreed
- .LAG liked that
by the way, if you have a sex video, you can see it on an Android, but not an iPhone
- Tim Jones
I agree with your assumption though..all data should be expected to become public and treated as such
- Jim Posner
Kevin: no. Just ask Bernie Ward. He was arrested for distributing child pornography.
- Robert Scoble
Hey can I ask you guys a question? The other day Sarah Lane posted a question on Twitter. I copied and pasted it to Leo's chat room without saying it was from her because I was being lazy, and they tore me too pieces that I didn't "credit" her and even when I tried to explain the admin called me "Scum" trying to mine "his" chat room so that I could take credit. Was I in the wrong that bad to be called "Scum"?
- Stephen Pickering
Tim: Steve Jobs is lying about that. My iPhone gets porn just fine.
- Robert Scoble
Stephen: you should see what I'm called on YouTube.
- Robert Scoble
darn, you Mr Scoble
- Tim Jones
Hehehehehe, it just got to me when I tried to explain to "Dan" over their that I was going to tell her I got the answer from them, and he was like "Sure, you Scum" I was like "Whoa"
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen: I'm not sure. Sometimes online communities turn very mean and attack wrongly.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: You do make good points. It could be considered the best way to live and stay honest if you expect eveverything to be public at some point..
- Kevin Costain
so the Privacy Settings on FB are essentially useless
- .LAG liked that
IC, ok, thanks.
- Stephen Pickering
Kevin: that won't stop me from getting drunk in London and wearing a pink wig again. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Robert: lol.. I'm sure all that Tequila I drank in Venezuela will come back to haunt me one day too..
- Kevin Costain
LogEx: who said it would be my family? I might leave a microphone open. And if I send child porn I won't have any privacy.
- Robert Scoble
Kevin: can you click like on the brand of Tequila? :-)
- Robert Scoble
Allright, great show, overall I am very excited about what's happening. I don't know how I got to arguing about Privacy. I guess I playing devils advocate. But its all good. See you guys later. Thanks for the chat!!!!!!
- Stephen Pickering
LogEx: also if you can see into your house from a public street, as you can see into mine, you have no privacy by law unless you close the window blinds.
- Robert Scoble
...privacy concerns aside, the LIKE button everywhere is going to be HUGE
- .LAG liked that
Robert: I don't think you can - Tequila is not a brand - El Jimador, that's a brand.. or the Agua Dente.. that stuff was harsh..
- Kevin Costain
LogEx: sorry, there is no privacy if you are doing something on the Internet. That's my whole point.
- Robert Scoble
But.. I have to run a ravage a couple Citrix servers.. the work never ends.. sorry I missed the show..
- Kevin Costain
...well, i think that "closing the blinds" kind of privacy is what some people are expecting with their data
- .LAG liked that
LogEx: you can have some expectation of privacy, yes, but I find that that expectation changes overtime. I'm sure the child pornographer expects privacy too.
- Robert Scoble
...but you make a good point Scoble: if you're on the Net, there are no blinds... and there is no spoon
- .LAG liked that
LAG: Microsoft execs had ALL their email put into public. Even ones that didn't break the law.
- Robert Scoble
LAG: and I'm sure they had an expectation of privacy. (Not any longer).
- Robert Scoble
mortifying
- .LAG liked that
LAG: this is why I say Privacy is Dead. It's easier than to try to figure out when things will really be private and when they won't.
- Robert Scoble
LAG: talk to a teenager sometime. You'll learn a whole new language about privacy. They've figured out how to live in public and still have privacy.
- Robert Scoble
LAG: for instance, maybe if we want to be private here we'll make up a secret language that only me and you can understand.
- Robert Scoble
I'm not really Tim..I'm a one legged dog that goes by the name...Lucky
- Tim Jones
...they created whole new language
- .LAG liked that
LAG: PGP does that too. Want my key? :-)
- Robert Scoble
Tim: we're all dogs on the Internet. :-)
- Robert Scoble
...I guess there's opportunities for cryptographic software makers
- .LAG liked that
LAG: yes, there is. The question is do enough people really care about privacy? Marshall does not a market make. ;-)
- Robert Scoble
...the whole PGP-key sharing thing, it's too geeky... will never work in a mass market product
- .LAG liked that
...my 72-yr-old mom won't know what to do with that
- .LAG liked that
LAG: I know one company building it into their social network.
- Robert Scoble
...but she's expect that her emails are private
- .LAG liked that
if they can make encryption brain-dead simple, it will catch on
- .LAG liked that
...then you could have some of the privacy people seem to want
- .LAG liked that
...oh crap! this conversation's been gr8... I'm late for a meeting! thanks for the insights Robert....l8r!
- .LAG liked that
LAG: she can live with that idea. But wait until she leaves her laptop signed in somewhere and her grandaugther gets a look.
- Robert Scoble
Anyway, gotta run.
- Robert Scoble
Hey is Robert still here? I meant to ask him what he's going to be doing in Israel, if he can make it
- Stephen Pickering
apparently, even smoke signals had distinctive signatures of their sender. Running Wolf's smokes were a bit puffier compared to Screaming Eagle
- Tim Jones
Robert, still there?
- Stephen Pickering
Allright, I'll find out in good time :-) Just curious
- Stephen Pickering
all the time
- rose-angela