But come to think of it basically everything I have learned about Thomas Jefferson post-school has diminished my respect for the man, so I don't know why I'm even surprised that he was anti-evolution before it was cool. - Lo

Jefferson was an Enlightenment guy, so far as I know. Supporting the Bible view isn't the only reason why someone might want to disprove Darwin. When new theories come out, there are often people within the scientific community who test and/or dispute them, sometimes because accepted theories within science become a sort of orthodoxy of their own. I gather it took a while for people to accept Mendel's findings (even when they were rediscovered). - Spidra Webster

I think Jefferson likely had many reasons for sending Lewis & Clark, not least of which was taking inventory of the land he bought from Napoleon. The Enlightenment was filled with people competing to introduce discoveries at scientific meetings. Having a new plant or animal species to show off, or to collect and distribute, definitely buffed your status. - Spidra Webster

Well, like I said, according to this book that's the reason. I hear you, though, I have had some really heated discussion with my scientist buddies about how the scientific community has contributed to the rift between science and so many Americans... hoo-boy, they get mad, but I'm like "uh scientists can be idiots too sometimes guys." - Lo

The way this book tells it, they found a fossilized mastodon in New Jersey and the entire world was just like WTF WTF WTF. I also learned (if accurate) from this book that the Mason-Dixon line originated because of a property dispute between some rich guys. - Lo

Most surveying does. *chuckle* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Spidra Webster

Honestly, if I weren't born in this era and had I not had the benefit of education, I'm sure things like fossilized mastodon discoveries would have freaked me out, too. It's difficult to imagine such a different world. Like imagining the world before there were any angiosperms. - Spidra Webster

Extinction was fairly controversial when it was first became. I guess people already knew about the Dodo being killed off, but the existence of lots of species that had lived too far in the past for humans to remember required rethinking basic tenets of biology. So it's not surprising that educated people of the time would disagree about what it meant, or even if extinction could happen. - John (bird whisperer)

When I was a hobo I did surveying work for cash for a couple weeks with a friend... it was so awesome, I don't think I'll ever be able to wrap my mind around the idea that it's ever done for any other reason than it's fun as hell. I am so mad sometimes I was born in a time when it's basically impossible to be an explorer, at least geographically... but then I remember that being born in a past time would have sucked pretty badly as a lady. :) - Lo

John, you just reminded me about something interesting in this book... it says in the early days of geology there were two sort of camps - one arguing that everything happened very gradually over time, and the other that there were major catastrophic events that created the physical landscape... that is so similar to the theories of evolution that I studied in college! Punctuated equilibrium and neutral theory of evolution... ah, it takes me back. I used to get so hyped up about evolution. - Lo

There's tons of stuff all around us that doesn't get studied due to funding. So in some sense you can always explore. Even on Earth, there are places you could get stranded that you wouldn't want to be because while satellites could technically see you, still no one would really know you were there and rescue you. The world is more known than it used to be but still not really KNOWN. It's one of the things that drives me nuts about people who talk as if the exploration left is in space. We don't know our seas. And people are still discovering new species of plants, animals, etc. all over the place. - Spidra Webster

Yeah, it's more that there are places to go, but there are so many explorers that you have to gain a lot of specialized knowledge, equipment, training, capital, etc. To some extent it was always true, but just being bold and willing to put up with crap doesn't get you as far as it used to. Or maybe it does, that's my perception of things and I definitely have no idea what I'm talking about. I think mostly I just really, really want a time machine. Then I can go see things before they got trampled by people, AND have access to contraception and antibiotics! Huzzah! - Lo

Yeah, I definitely wish I could see the world before the Industrial Revolution really kicked the shit out of it but then I remember that I'm a fat disabled wimp who's afraid of snakes and most animals, even some domesticated ones. But if you want to study one now, you can do useful stuff now. Citizen science can actually be helpful. I guess the key thing is using good data collection methods that would stand up to scrutiny. I'm too uneducated to know the methodology yet but I'm still hoping something useful will come out of my carob project. It's certainly understudied in this particular country so almost everything I do is not something someone's already doing here. - Spidra Webster

That's awesome, Spidra! Way to be proactive. I prefer to just read books and complain :P - Lo